the EU & the UK

[MyNameIsTerry]

im well known as a Remainer here
Absolutely acknowledge that Leave won the advisory referendum
i don’t want another referendum though I do wish we hadn’t voted Out. I don’t think that’s good for us
As a Remainer I absolutely do not want a No Deal though
I don’t see why we need to commit to a No Deal apart from the dire work of Politicians over the last 3 years !!!!!

There are not degrees of democracy, however further voting would be democratic though it might not seem fair

Like in business, you can steer a situation. Just make it shit and stifle the hell out of it until you get your way. All the legal boxes get checked but it's a strategy, a one lacking in ethics.

We will end up looking to the EU for the way out. Eventually they will boot us out.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Brexit Day + 81

Is Tom Watson (Labour Party deputy leader) voicing what all remainers want (many tacitly) that Brexit be completely abandoned – as if the Referendum had never happened?

If this is the fact of the matter, then surely it’s about time those remainers who profess to have a nodding acquaintance with the truth – that the outers won – should be honest and come clean. Obviously, this would mean their denying democracy, with all that that entails (I’ll pause here and wait for the remonstrations that there are degrees of democracy and it isn’t an absolute concept – because currently that’s how it’s being nudged into fudge).

I have always seen Watson as someone who makes the right noises but is just sailing the easy winds. He has no intention of addressing the elephant in the room, the fact so many want out and how parties like TBP are on the move. He is another who just wants the lid back on the can of worms.

They are crowing about Peterborough but it's a marginal seat that has flipped between Labour & Tory over the last century, it's not a Labour stronghold. And the new MP has stood before and lost to the Tories. That seat could easily flip again.

To quote the Rage Against The Machine track Know Your Enemy, "What? The land of the free. Whoever told you that is your enemy".

[Carnation]

That's how I see it Pain. If the UK agrees to the deals that the EU has basically assigned to us, well that's the same as remaining in the EU.

[mezzaninedoor]

I do want to remain in the EU but there is no really clean route to that now.
Hence I accept the Leave vote.

[WiredIncorrectly]

I stopped caring about Brexit after the EU agreed another delay. ******** to it all. The media, the EU, and politics are as bent as a nine bob note. Fake news. Fake ads. Broken promises. Politics is about who has the most money and marketing team to pull of their campaign.

To me it feels like there's 3 super powers in the world: The USA, Russia and China. The European countries would have no chance against these countries, or terrorists, without any allies. "Subscribing" to the EU gives countries buy in protection (isn't that racketeering), but at a cost that other countries must abide by EU law which basically puts the EU at the top of the food chain.

A country should be independent. It's resources and wealth should be spent homeland looking after the people that help build the country. Allies should be built with trust, and trade. If it wasn't for the people who do the 9-5 shifts there would be very little productivity happening in the UK. Which means no taxes to help keep the country running.

The system is all wrong. It's the poor working class who slave away doing dead end jobs to keep a roof over their head while the bankers twiddle their thumbs making trades from the money these hard working folk deposit into their banks. The bankers cream off their commissions while the poor struggle to pay their rent. And it's these people who face the brunt of it.

Everything about this country is a mess right now. We're inching closer to some sort of unrest.

[Carnation]

A very truthful and passionate first post WiredIncorrectly.
Probably the sentiments and words of many.

[Carnation]

Mezzaninedoor, I do admire you for sticking to your opinion and even the willingness to meet half way, but in this situation there is only one way or another. In or out. Otherwise there would have been a 3rd option to vote back in, when was it? 3 years ago? Pain will be spot on with the exact time.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm all for shared projects but with the EU it's more about centralisation at the cost of sovereignty. That's fine for governments looking for easier ways of doing things but it makes it far too remote for the rest of us. Even with us working alongside them, as in May's WA, they still want to be final arbitrator with the likes of the ECJ.

I can see benefits to remaining close to agencies such as the EMA but I don't agree with surrendering financial control to a bunch of bureaucrats who will remain unaccountable to us, only to other bodies of their own bureaucracy. Look at the corruption seen in such as the IMF. They get away with it, as usual it's the have's and have nots.

That could be said of agencies such as the EMA however I think there are benefits to some agencies as long as we retain the ability to legislate without being forced into compliance. An opt out if they choose to go the wrong way.

You could easily argue that's hypocritical. Why not replace British police forces with Interpol? But I think it's a matter of what the agencies do and how much control they have on a state. The EMA help with our drugs in assessing them but local formularies still have to licence a drug here i.e. the MHRA. Replacing the police gives far too much control to people outside of our state and it's control mechanisms.

Certain shared standards are fine with me but not all. For instance, I'm fine with driving licences being valid across our borders but that's a long way off surrendering the ability to legislate your tax rates.

[MyNameIsTerry]

So, one of the PM candidates wants to set up a People's Assembly to look at ll the issues and come up with the best way to Leave. What the hell have all the civil servants and politicians been doing for the last 3 years then? Has no one performed tons of risk assessments and met with stakeholders in many areas to understand the risks and what we need?

And besides...we've got a few months to do it all in

[MyNameIsTerry]

And now the EU are in deadlock over being unable to secure a majority for who runs the place!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=spartanntp