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Thread: the EU & the UK

  1. #1791
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MobileChicane View Post


    Remain-backing parties gained the majority of actual votes this election. They failed to turn this into seats because of the FPTP system. Whatever you feel, thereís something wrong in this country when people are so routinely not represented. I said the exact same thing when UKIP failed to win many seats despite the number of votes. It isnít partisanship or sore loser syndrome. But yes, under the current system - which is all that matters - Brexit has a mandate.

    Here's what the results would have been under PR (from 3:40am results)





    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/sta...72890166824961

    Support for EU membership across the EU has actually grown since the Brexit referendum. There is absolutely no evidence of a domino effect, quite the opposite.
    Yes I agree there won't be any kind of sudden domino effect. I said I think others may follow the UKs lead. I would think some of Eastern Europe would seriously consider it. Maybe the Netherlands. and if brexit turns out to be a success then I would think you would see a domino effect in time. Precisely what the globalists fear most...Brexit success...or Brexess if you will. ;-)
    Last edited by Noivous; 14-12-19 at 13:19.

  2. #1792
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MobileChicane View Post


    Remain-backing parties gained the majority of actual votes this election. They failed to turn this into seats because of the FPTP system. Whatever you feel, thereís something wrong in this country when people are so routinely not represented. I said the exact same thing when UKIP failed to win many seats despite the number of votes. It isnít partisanship or sore loser syndrome. But yes, under the current system - which is all that matters - Brexit has a mandate.

    Here's what the results would have been under PR (from 3:40am results)





    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/sta...72890166824961

    Support for EU membership across the EU has actually grown since the Brexit referendum. There is absolutely no evidence of a domino effect, quite the opposite.
    It's interesting how PR would change the shape of Parliament (hence why neither of the top two will want it) but I wonder how it would work in reality when we look at the last few years? The difference in regions would also be interesting because it may open a debate between whether we need more regional assemblies (thinking of LibDem seats were not representative of the whole of the UK).

    The above doesn't reflect Remain backing seats being the most won under PR either. It does show a more commonly held number of seats by parties that can't get a look in and a more powerful LibDem party. Remain parties would already be holding more seats. So, if Remain votes were the majority gain that suggests they are not evenly spread.

    I suspect PR would be good for many issues but for Brexit I doubt it as we have seen how such a split has caused votes to continually fail.

    I wonder what Scotland would make of it? It's an interesting question now the SNP are going to push for another indy ref.
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  3. #1793
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Noivous View Post
    Yes I agree their won't be any kind of sudden domino effect. I said I think others may follow the UKs lead. I would think some of Eastern Europe would seriously consider it. Maybe the Netherlands. and if brexit turns out to be a success then I would think you would see a domino effect in time. Precisely what the globalists fear most...Brexit success...or Brexess if you will. ;-)
    It can depend what question you ask and where. Some polls show countries that unhappy yet when it comes to a question of leaving it may not show as clearly.

    The question for some countries is how they deal with losing the money they receive from the EU. It's a hard move for us as net payers but for those who may be propping themselves up or using it to improve how hard will it hit them?

    And how has asked anyone? Countries like ROI have a good idea since they have had votes on the EU but look at the UK? We never had votes and the politicians took it for granted Remain was a slam dunk. And here we are...
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  4. #1794
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Noivous View Post
    Well Terry another one in the books eh. Truly historic. As an interested bystander here's my take. Contrary to popular belief within your Parliament (same with our Congress BTW) the MPs work for the people...not the other way around. And the British public, in their legendary fairness, showed those so called "do over" MPs just who in fact their boss is. They were summarily fired yesterday for not following their bosses orders given in 2016. i.e. get us out of the EU.

    I suspect other EU countries may follow your lead. I hope so.

    We're dealing with something similar here in that the hard left faction of the DemocRAT party, which controls the party right now, has been trying to overthrow a duly elected President by whichever nefarious means they can think up for the last three years - what a collosal waste of time and money. But in the long run they will fail just as your do overs have failed. The wisdom of we rank filers never ceases to amaze me. They usually get things right don't they. It must be from living in the trenches, yes?

    N.
    Well, those who left their parties to a) start new ones b) go independent c) cross the floor to a Remain party or d) all of the above paid the price as they all got booted out. These were MP's who were voted as part of the party of the time and I would think it very unpopular that they choose to change party and manifesto pledges due to personal opinions. That should trigger a by election so the local constituents get their say. Now they have and the decision was to boot all of them out, some very badly, thus showing their arrogance in believing themselves more important than those they represent in not consulting them first.

    It's very interesting because this is the 2nd GE where it's been Brexit vs Remain + possible socialism. In the 2017 Corbyn did well and much better than predicted. In this GE he got his arse handed to him. Without more analysis it's hard to know whether it's all about Brexit or Corbyn. A lot of people will be sick of Brexit being frustrated at every turn and now we don't have a rather wobbly leader in May, it's Boris who is more charismatic.

    I've watched a bit of the impeachment hearings and it just seemed like the usual party vs party slagging off to me. I know what you mean, it's one big load of money & power trying to oust the other. Brexit might have changed the landscape for us with all these legal challenges but we will have to see. What next will big business and powerful people challenge? Imagine if Corbyn got in? They would have been panicking over their money then

    Yes, a colossal waste of time & money. The lawyers are the only winners. Nice new Mercs all round! Social media was certainly a trench. I think most people just get on with their lives though and want it all over. They get sick of hearing about it. It's only the faithful slagging it out on the internet or the doorstep and as our latest GE shows just because the media say it is so and social media is very active with a certain message doesn't mean it reflects what the population think. Just like how party memberships bare no reflection on voters.

    Anyway, awaiting "Russian interference" CTing from here
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  5. #1795
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Concerns raised over senior Tory MP link to election count firm

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...on-count-firm/

    Idox has had a hand in providing count software, including postal vote management support, among other services, for elections since at least 2012.

    Three years ago, Idox said they were the largest provider of electoral management systems in the UK, covering a voting population of 13 million.

    It describes itself as "one of the premier election service providers in the UK, providing outstanding expertise and knowledge across all areas of election management".

  6. #1796
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow View Post
    Concerns raised over senior Tory MP link to election count firm

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...on-count-firm/

    Idox has had a hand in providing count software, including postal vote management support, among other services, for elections since at least 2012.

    Three years ago, Idox said they were the largest provider of electoral management systems in the UK, covering a voting population of 13 million.

    It describes itself as "one of the premier election service providers in the UK, providing outstanding expertise and knowledge across all areas of election management".
    Whilst I would agree it's dodgy and should not be allowed this would only be news in Scotland in the case of a Tory win. They bombed. It would be a scandal now if this were one of the SNP sitting on that board.
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  7. #1797
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    One to watch:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    That WA will easily get through now, new MP's voting against or abstaining will be marking their cards. That makes this change concerned as I think it's perfectly acceptable to allow a vote to extend the transition (and it should be extended anyway to allow the original length).

    I can see a legal challenge coming over this one regarding Parliamentary sovereignty again. Simply not having enough votes for that clause change doesn't sound right to me although I expect that will be the government lawyer line that they had a vote.

    I wonder what the EU agreement says about extension? I expect it will be the usual "responsible party inline with constitution" stuff so very open to debate.
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  8. #1798
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    An interesting poll of directors since the GE:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news...cid=spartanntp

    This does go some way to showing that it was inertia that was causing problems for business, as has been said before, and they are perhaps more upbeat due to Corbyn not getting in.

    The EU trade deal will remain a big factor for them but for confidence to rise to the highest since 2016 does seem favourable considering we have been getting told business will fail if we leave.
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  9. #1799
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    As we move onto the next stage (soon) after some finality is brought to Parliament and it's time wasting it is interesting to see the same old things rattling around about deals. But I found this interesting from the German Defence Minister who is touted as Merkel's replacement:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    I agree with future co operation. But I do wonder how they think telling the UK they can't cherry pick deals when they themselves are choosing to cherry pick a defence agreement framed as for our benefit, when we all know Germany is weak on defence and will be relying on France heavily, is going to come across. Perhaps it's a way to remove one of our bargaining chips with an earlier agreement?

    Aside from that thought she seems at odds with EU direction. They are pulling away from NATO at Commission level and Macron is very keen to support this. It seems Germany are more sceptical, possibly as they don't see a replacement solution as the EU is weakened by losing it's other nuclear deterrent?
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  10. #1800
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    An interesting article showing things aren't all solidarity in the EU when it comes to putting your hand in your pocket:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=spartanntp

    That's a big chunk of aid to the poorer nations in the block. The question is whether it slows down their growth due to lack of infrastructure development or they were relying on it to keep the, afloat?

    Austria and Germany are noted as vocal members in favour of reducing this rather than adding more to compensate for changes.

    So, it's going to be austerity for some nations and that is bound to start causing some rifts.
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