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Thread: the EU & the UK

  1. #1761
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    Sep 2019
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    601

    Re: the EU & the UK

    Hi Tezza

    Why does yous Brit media use zz as a nickname?

    "One drawback can be no 1 st candidate gets in and a popular 2 nd candidate sneaks through."

    Yep this is true if yous keep the State/county/constituency format

    But if yous do nationally then party with most votes win. Only problem is that the party apparatchiks get to choose the senators/MP not da people.

    Our systems sucks so much that in many places it ain't even worth voting

  2. #1762
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    544

    Re: the EU & the UK

    Oh geez... they're going to start a civil war!

  3. #1763
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    May 2014
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Yep, it's been on the cards for some time now.

  4. #1764
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    27,320

    Re: the EU & the UK

    Another day, another loon:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/offbe...cid=spartanntp

    Although the cat has more credibility than that howler outside Parliament who the local party have selected to stand for the LibDems.
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  5. #1765
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    So what did everyone think of the Boris / Corbyn debate televised on the 19th Nov?
    Did it convince you of a stern vote or was it drama in the first degree?

  6. #1766
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    Sep 2019
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    601

    Re: the EU & the UK

    Hey Terry where yous at my man?

    I read that hissy fit Swinson dame made an ass of herself is that good or bad for Bozza?

  7. #1767
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by lebonvin View Post
    Hey Terry where yous at my man?

    I read that hissy fit Swinson dame made an ass of herself is that good or bad for Bozza?
    Been busy at home, lots on the go with family and friends all at once.

    Yep, she has made an utter clown of herself. Made it all about herself and it's now coming crashing down as she did so bad in the leader's debate as well as her deputy saying, whilst she has spent months saying she refuses to work with Labour, that they will potentially sell out to the Tories for a referendum. The Tories are their bigger enemy in the Brexit debate but Labour have lurched further left and they represent a bigger threat to Liberal Democrat politics so they will sell out to the Tories again for some places on the front bench.

    The public will crucify them for this as Lib Dem supporters, and those defecting from Tory & Labour, will see this as a betrayal. They were decimated after they did this in 2010 and I expect this will be much worse for them as it was just the student pledges they still get hammered for due to 2010.

    So, Swinson falling apart will actually help both major parties out who may get some voters back. But Bojo will be the big winner as he now has a poodle to count on if he needs propping up with some MP's from another party. This is totally the opposite of the direction the rest of the Remain Alliance of the parties are going.

    Corbyn is offering a 2nd referendum anyway so it would make sense those alliance parties would get behind Labour like the SNP are. But this is where it comes down to the fact the Lib Dems are much closer in values to Tory than (current) Labour.
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  8. #1768
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnation View Post
    So what did everyone think of the Boris / Corbyn debate televised on the 19th Nov?
    Did it convince you of a stern vote or was it drama in the first degree?
    I didn't watch it as I had something more important to do...I think I might have been cleaning around the back of the toilet or getting some hair out of some plug holes :biggrins:

    It would have only been the same old BS spouted anyway. But it seems Corbyn has come out a bit better than Boris. Swinson made a mess of things from what I've read.

    Obviously I'm sceptical of which media I'm reading from though

    I want to see all the manifestos dissecting first. However, from what I have read about Corbyn's and the later answer to questions from he and the likes of McDonnell (who I think is a real threat) I can't trust him. Some of the policies I would support, others I don't think are needed. But Corbyn appears to have weaselled out on Brexit again by not talking about FOM and I saw it quoted he would do that by a separate decision after the referendum. And all along we have McDonnell with his 32 hour week (how many migrants will we need to cover that 5th day then? ) and Labour activists, as well as the conference vote, and Diane Abbott not only wanting to expand on FOM but open the floodgates to other countries (which would tie in with the 32 hour week ) and I'm concerned Brexit will be weaselled out of by Corbyn.

    He won't say what his view is, he is neutral. Sorry, that would have been acceptable for Cameron and I would have preferred a neutral PM then. But with Corbyn he has been disingenuous all the way through and on the fence trying to appease whatever group he is talking to that day. I want to know something concrete now to trust him because his attitude has lost a lot of trust.

    So, I'm thinking Labour will go for a CU plus close SM alignment and then add FOM back in later anyway. There is no point negotiating this with the EU because we can simple re-join the EEA and ask to remain in the CU, or a similar CU, and get the same. We would also join the EFTA on top of this (although they aren't in any CU.

    That seems pointless to me. But if it came to a 2nd referendum I guess I would be voting for it because I would rather get something. If that means the MP's moan for years they have lost influence and are rule takers to Brussels then quite frankly that's on them for negotiating a poor deal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    A sign of strength? Having no opinion or being afraid to voice it is a sign of strength? It can be described positively but not was strength. More fence sitting.

    The PM will head up negotiations with the EU but won't say what he wants. That is a position of weakness in negotiation surely?

    It was fine for Cameron to give his opinion and then remain out of the campaigning, or even better factcheck for us, but that decision is passed. How can you agree a deal and then refuse to say whether you think it's good or not?

    I wonder how far Corbyn will take this. Will he tell us his Brexit is not as good as remaining in the EU? Because there will be an argument on a factchecking level for that. Won't that then be him refusing to tell the truth to save people?

    My decision is not to have a decision. But perhaps this is the Corbyn we already know? The man who can't do anything due to poor leadership and needing someone to tell him what to do? Not a decision maker but a decision taker.
    Last edited by MyNameIsTerry; 24-11-19 at 04:11.
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  9. #1769
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Here is the guide to party manifesto pledges by the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50291676
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  10. #1770
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    This one has been rumbling around on a couple of news outlets for a few days now but none of the major ones seem to pick it up. Now they have:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    That campaign organiser is simply deluded. Labour won't get into power just from their own members! The Brexit map showed how heavy Leave votes carried in the Midlands and North. Now you are going to tell them free movement will continue so what is the point of even leaving the Single Market then? We might as well stay or re-join the EEA.

    If Labour go with this it will finish them off. It was the number one issue for the referendum. It will show Corbyn cannot be trusted to negotiate as it will end up Remain vs Remain. They are due to decide yet but so far he has sat on the fence when asked directly if FOM will continue which is going to turn off Labour voter.

    It doesn't go unnoticed that when questioned on this Gwynne plugs it to the students that they will make agreements they can come here and go there. So, why won't they say they will honour their previous 2017 manifesto to end FOM? It will be interesting to see what they come out with on this as so far we are back to the usual fence sitting that has meant they are losing votes to the LibDems
    Further to this Labour have decided to remove FOM from their manifesto according to the summaries by the media. They also state, when asking Corbyn, that FOM will be delayed until after the GE and be a separate issue to Brexit dealt with by some form of committee type meeting by them. Pile that sleight of hand onto wanting to remain as close to the SM as possible and the recent conference where they voted to extend FOM much further and you have a Labour party that want higher immigration levels and want to do it without the electorate having a say, only Labour party members (possibly).

    Hopefully people will see through this nonsense. Be straight about Labour. You are telling us we will get a vote to decide and now you are shuffling very important drivers for these referendums into side meetings where only you will have the power to decide. Disingenuous. This further feeds the narrative of Corbyn being on the fence and unable to make decisions.

    We also now have John McDonnell saying he won't stay neutral. That's fair enough. But what this means is we could have a Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary and even the one person who will negotiate the deal, Starmer, all saying they will campaign to Remain. And that's just a few of the front bench. How can hard negotiation take place when they keep telling the EU side they don't want to be there? How can those who want to Leave expect them to try their hardest?
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