the EU & the UK

[mezzaninedoor]

Its still a big ruddy mess .........................

[MyNameIsTerry]

Even to agree anything new or discuss it they surely need an extension now? I'm guessing the big players are waiting to see if it's worth the time of the EU Parliament so they have time to ratify it.

[mezzaninedoor]

Boris has done it.
Interesting statements from the likes of Jon Bercow.
Ruth Davidson considering her position.
I think the next few weeks will be very interesting politically.

Boris the pro'Rogue' !!!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Talk about dirty tricks. That has to force Corbyn into a VONC now. I wonder how confident Boris is? It could mean another GE. Another EU extension. Also the EU gave him time to come up with a deal but his "very exciting plan" is very close to the leave date so will we just hear it from the EU side since they have to arrange their own vote? People are bashing the Queen over this ignoring the fact it would have been far more controversial if she refused to sign it.

[jojo2316]

Bloody hell Boris! Surely we can’t put up with this?

[mezzaninedoor]

Yes. You can't bash the Queen as any attempt to change the course of Parliament by her would be very very controversial.
I think it needs Senior MP's in the HOC and John Bercow to steer the path of resistance to No Deal now.

I accept that we are Leaving the EU but I don't accept that crashing out is the preferred way to manage this just for Boris to meet his soundbites especially with the extended prorogue of Parliament.

[mezzaninedoor]

It's normal for new governments to shut down Parliament, in order to hold a Queen's Speech, which sets out the government's plans for the next year or so. Fair enough. The length of time varies - in 2016 Parliament was closed for four working days, while in 2014 it was closed for 13 days. Fair enough
This year, Parliament would be suspended for 23 working days before the new Queen's speech on 14 October. This looks like opportunism but it is lawful so unlikely the Supreme Court would back any action to overturn it.


While prorogation is normal, the timing of it in this case is "clearly hugely controversial", says Maddy Thimont-Jack at the Institute for Government think tank.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Bercow said he would not allow it, implying it was within his power to veto it, so what has happened here? I'm a bit behind.

There are a couple of possible legal challenges here since they can overrule the Queen. I've seen it mentioned it can be tested on the basis the Queen has been poorly informed but I don't believe that because all the PM surely has to do is follow procedure since the Queen never uses her power to refuse signing. She makes no judgement other than whether the correct paperwork has been submitted acting in an administrators role. The test would be whether Boris has followed procedure or not and since prorogueing is a known process that should be established.

Legal challenges are gong to need some rushing through too if it may hit the Supreme Court, which seems likely.

I expect Bercow will prioritise all actions against this and No Deal as soon as Parliament return from their hols. Those first few days will be vote after vote on this stuff.

Agreed, it's the timing here. Whilst I'm sick of the constant nonsense in Parliament mounting any & all challenges whether they are worth it or not I totally disagree with this and it is an attempt to prevent democratic expression by MP's. It is also a bad precedent to set because, like those Henry VIII powers, it could become a "thing" for future governments when they want to sneak around the Commons & Lords.

To be honest, I wasn't in anyway annoyed by the suggestion that MP's and civil servants have their holidays cancelled. Welcome to the real world where if something big is happening you don't just sod off on your hols anyway and hope it all gets sorted when you return

I wonder if it can be challenged on the basis the process to commit to any deal cannot be followed in such a short time. So, unless an extension is requested, and possibly secured by the EU, it may be covered by some fairness clause?

[mezzaninedoor]

Bercow said he would not allow it, implying it was within his power to veto it, so what has happened here? I'm a bit behind.

To be honest, I wasn't in anyway annoyed by the suggestion that MP's and civil servants have their holidays cancelled. Welcome to the real world where if something big is happening you don't just sod off on your hols anyway and hope it all gets sorted when you return

I wonder if it can be challenged on the basis the process to commit to any deal cannot be followed in such a short time. So, unless an extension is requested, and possibly secured by the EU, it may be covered by some fairness clause?

I don't think its within Bercows power to stop prorougation as its a Primeministerial power from what I've read. Normally The Queen is just part of the process and we can't really be cross with her as we don't want the Monarch to interfere. It's an odd position as I'm unhappy that Parliamentary procedure be used to stop discourse.

Regards holidays and what not. I'm pretty sure that we have reason to stop the Conference jollies this year and keep the MP's in session. Thats what any Business would do when presented with the circumstances we have at the moment.

I'm not sure that there are any fairness clauses when it comes to Parliamentary business. Jess Phillips has made the point that some serious social legislation is going to be lost with Boris prorogue where he has said that all the business affected will be insubstantial, MMmmmm insubstantial in whose eyes Boris?

[mezzaninedoor]

BOOOOMMM!!!! The reverberations of a pre-emptive strike.


Sounds like non-democracy cuts both ways, after all. Fighting fire wth fire...?


Is my kipper nearly done or has it turned into a red herring?

mmmmmmmm

I don't think this Prorougation is about Leave or Remain, its about Parliament being allowed to Sit and Scrutinise the PM and his Cabinet and the workings of Government.
Remain MPs trying to avoid No Deal are using the normal levers of HOC to try and avoid No Deal
I've long said and accepted that we are Leaving, I think Boris is setting a very dangerous precedent here