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Thread: the EU & the UK

  1. #1511
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    A top hat, walking cane and footman for Rees-Mogg?
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  2. #1512
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    I had a feeling this might resurface and maybe even the various CU's. The DUP can no longer prop the Tories up in votes due to the number they have lost. Also I heard Hogan was appointed earlier and that many thought the new president did this to focus eyes on sorting the border issue but she did also say she was committed to avoiding No Deal which I'm pleased to hear compared to the likes of Juncker. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9099461.html
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  3. #1513
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    The 'Northern Ireland Only' backstop has always been an option and it feels like a good option to me. Effectively the border becomes the Irish Sea.

    It means that during the Implementation period you can look at the technology like that used between Sweden & Norway for the future. I think every truck is delayed just 10-15 minutes with the Sweden/Norway tech but our problem is we would be starting from a Zero Tech position so leaving on the 31st October without a Deal would be silly. If the NI Only backstop could be baked into the Deal then maybe theres hope.

    DUP probably wont like it though.
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  4. #1514
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    This entire Brexit fiasco has got me super interested in political strategy. Dominic Cummings is a genius. I know people will disagree, but the methods he used as part of his strategy were very clever. His blog goes into some detail. People dislike the guy, but I like his intellect. I've started studying political strategy.

    I'm angry with Brexit. I'm angry that the 17.4 million people that voted to leave the EU are having their vote nullified by Jeremy Corbyn - a man who refuses to back an election because he knows he will lose. The Tories who jumped ship are traitors who jumped to the other side in an attempt to remain in the EU, or revoke article 50. That is the truest sense of a betrayal of democracy as you can get. I'm not even a Tory supporter either.

    I hope Boris breaks the law, or he has a trick up his sleeve to leave on the 31st. I think he has. And personally, he has all the support to fight a court charge because Labour and Corbyn have destroyed the democracy. If Boris argues he is upholding it he can not be breaking the law.

    I would die to defend democracy.
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  5. #1515
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Jeremy Corbyn is a Brexiteer. He isn't looking to stop Brexit, hes an enabler.
    Hes desperate that his Party doesn't back Remain at Conference.
    He wants to leave but with a Deal.

    Boris is a dangerous chancer but painted as a lovable rogue.

    Leavers discount the fact that lots of Remainers such as myself accept the referendum though I don't agree with it.
    BUT it would be stupid to leave without a Deal.

    What is happening here is the wheels of democracy are turning.
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  6. #1516
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    Leavers discount the fact that lots of Remainers such as myself accept the referendum though I don't agree with it.
    BUT it would be stupid to leave without a Deal.
    I think it comes down to who you are talking to, Tony. There are Remainers (hard) who think Leavers are all racists, thick, wish death on pensioners, etc. There are Leavers (Hard) who think you are all traitors. Are any of these people worth listening to? They just evoke an :eyeroll: from me.

    Reasonable people think about all the issues and listen to what others say.
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  7. #1517
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    The 'Northern Ireland Only' backstop has always been an option and it feels like a good option to me. Effectively the border becomes the Irish Sea.

    It means that during the Implementation period you can look at the technology like that used between Sweden & Norway for the future. I think every truck is delayed just 10-15 minutes with the Sweden/Norway tech but our problem is we would be starting from a Zero Tech position so leaving on the 31st October without a Deal would be silly. If the NI Only backstop could be baked into the Deal then maybe theres hope.

    DUP probably wont like it though.
    I've been against the backstop because I could see it was a trap. We would never get out of it. What we are currently seeing is two diametrically opposed groups. We want out, they don't see a solution for out. Will they ever accept a tech solution? Maybe they will, although I have my doubts ROI/NI ever will. The EU may be more practical but with Ireland it is also about ideology.

    The backstop is all EU. Other than retaining the status quo for the border what do we get? We have no say it and it's aim is to remain permanent unless bother sides agree to a new solution. But what if they never agree to one? We stay in forever? I would rather be in something like a Customs Union than this because then we have a say in it (not the EUCU though as we would have no say in that without being members of the EU as well) so maybe something like the Turkey CU. At least we can negotiate with that and leave if needed, there is no further negotiation intended with that backstop and we have no power at all in it.

    But the NI backstop is something a bit more reasonable. Whilst I'm against it in principle as it hands the reigns to the EU it could be agood compromise/ I'm still scratching my head over what compromise the EU make in this backstop as they seem to benefit much more for doing much less since it's just a continuance of a CU to them.

    Considering who is most impacted by this if we are to have a referendum I would support an NI ONLY referendum on the NI backstop ONLY. If they want it, it doesn't affect us over here.

    Something to remember though is despite the media waffling on about the border being about a CU or backstop it is far from it. You will have to make border checks on standards and that's about the SM. CU's do include the stuff about origin but it's the SM that talks about the standards needed to trade in it. This takes us into a different area of the WA that has to go alongside any backstop or CU. Agricultural products being a good example of this e.g. food.
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  8. #1518

    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredIncorrectly View Post
    This entire Brexit fiasco has got me super interested in political strategy. Dominic Cummings is a genius. I know people will disagree, but the methods he used as part of his strategy were very clever. His blog goes into some detail. People dislike the guy, but I like his intellect. I've started studying political strategy.

    I'm angry with Brexit. I'm angry that the 17.4 million people that voted to leave the EU are having their vote nullified by Jeremy Corbyn - a man who refuses to back an election because he knows he will lose. The Tories who jumped ship are traitors who jumped to the other side in an attempt to remain in the EU, or revoke article 50. That is the truest sense of a betrayal of democracy as you can get. I'm not even a Tory supporter either.

    I hope Boris breaks the law, or he has a trick up his sleeve to leave on the 31st. I think he has. And personally, he has all the support to fight a court charge because Labour and Corbyn have destroyed the democracy. If Boris argues he is upholding it he can not be breaking the law.

    I would die to defend democracy.
    Wired... I'll leave you to write my posts in future

  9. #1519
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Something that has come out of the Scottish Court case is a unique power under their legal system whereby if the PM doesn't extend A50 by request the court may have the power to do so. I really can't see that going down well with the public and I question if it would be legal in EU law anyway. Parliament should force that out of the government, the courts need to stay out of the politics. I don't see why the corrective action wouldn't be partitioning the government to court instead.
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  10. #1520
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    Jeremy Corbyn is a Brexiteer. He isn't looking to stop Brexit, hes an enabler.
    Hes desperate that his Party doesn't back Remain at Conference.
    He wants to leave but with a Deal.

    Boris is a dangerous chancer but painted as a lovable rogue.

    Leavers discount the fact that lots of Remainers such as myself accept the referendum though I don't agree with it.
    BUT it would be stupid to leave without a Deal.

    What is happening here is the wheels of democracy are turning.
    Let's pretend we're politicians in parliament and we're allowed to have a little squabble because you're a great person and I don't want to fall out with anybody over a differing of political opinions

    Corbyn blows hot and cold. He lost a lot of supporters. He's got to claw them back some how.

    Boris is a very odd character. I can't put my finger on it, but he's odd. He's almost like a scapegoat. If a no deal happens all the fingers will be pointed at the dumb guy with fuzzy hair who was already a laughing stock before Brexit. I told you I don't like the guy It was meant to be May that took the UK out. But, she crumbled eventually. They needed somebody else with a thicker skin. Somebody like Trump - or could at least be molded that way.

    The PM has a job to do. To respect the majority vote. Democracy is the rule of majority. That's the definition of the word. So that vote has to be respected and the PM has the job of leaving the EU.

    But there's a bit of a problem with that. Nobody can sort a deal out. Parliament can't do it. They've had 3 years. The EU point blank refused to discuss May's deal any further, and both remain and leave disliked May's deal. That was a no go.

    So what's the solution? The only other alternative is to leave without one. It's not possible to remain indefinitely because the majority voted to leave. Early polling stats show Tories would win an election and their supporters are well aware we could leave with a no-deal. Which is why Corbyn won't entertain an election.

    Remaining as a temporary EU state serves no purpose. It costs the UK money, and ties up politicians. It's no use extending Brexit for God knows how long with no certainty. Revoking is not even an option. Running another referendum just to make sure is also not an option. Because neither of these support the definition of democracy.

    Boris has got to go through this. Somebody had to, and he's the lucky (or unlucky) guy to do it. He'll break the law if need be. I'm certain of it. Not because I support him, I don't. But because this is what the majority voted for, and the delivery of Brexit is already late. Time has ran out.

    What happens to the UK post no-deal is yet to be seen. There's fear mongering being pushed about in anti-brexit media. It's all speculation. It's like anxiety ... fearing the unknown. Cross that bridge if and when it happens.

    The UK tried to get a deal. May tried. Boris hasn't because he wasn't put there to do that. His lunch tomorrow with Junker will be to appease the media.

    The Government are still running ads on Google for Brexit that state we're leaving on the 31st. Corbyn and Bercow are threatening serious consequences if Boris breaks the law ... because they know what he's up to. If after the passing of the law it was unlikely we'd be leaving on the 31st then the Government would not be spending millions (they claimed 1 billion) on advertising it. It costs a lot of money to advertise on Google to the entire UK.

    Search "Brexit" in google and top result will be an ad to the Government site. See here: https://i.imgur.com/MSKdrvG.png

    If you go to the page it says we're leaving on the 31st. This further supports the idea that no-deal is now highly likely. The media won't tell you that. The circus would be over and they'd no longer be able to pump out clickbait that generates them ALOT of money. The DM and other sites are in financial trouble since fake news and blatent clickbait was outlawed. From a business perspective it makes sense to keep stirring the pot.

    You hear about the MP's that are fighting to remain even though their constituencies voted to leave? The word democracy is a buzz word and means something different to different people.

    I know some people think that Brexiteers were lied too. That's not an opinion I share and neither do other Brexiteers I know. But, if that were to be the case then cast the blame to social media and those that continue to support it. A consequence of convenience. But, as I said I don't follow that remain argument.

    Peace and love <3
    Last edited by WiredIncorrectly; 15-09-19 at 02:40.
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