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Thread: the EU & the UK

  1. #1601
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Whilst less immigrants might please the real racists it's an odd argument really considering it's only Freedom of Movement that is ending, not immigration. And reduced EU immigration might mean more immigration from the rest of the world. The rest of the world is less likely to be white and Christian than those from the EU. They may see as the first step to their new world but they are in for a massive let down. The idiots shouting to send people back are not representative of the UK and considering parties like UKIP and the BNP never got anywhere in politics it shows they are fringe (and of course there are racists who vote Tory, Labour, etc).

    Just one reason why it's a bogus argument. Of course real racists voted to stop people coming here but then how else would they vote? It has no connection to real concerns of other people who voted the same way. And what of ethnic minorities that voted Leave? You rarely hear them mentioned but then it would open critics to possible calls of racism back under other bogus arguments.
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  2. #1602
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post
    Reassemble the suspended NI Assembly and make the border and its administration the responsibility of NI and RoI without interference from either the EU or the UK – after all it's NI and RoI's homeland. Wait a moment! I suggested this none too radical solution over a year ago and Mrs May never listened. Perhaps Boris heard and was just awaiting his chance to try to put it into action….
    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post

    The top prize for ‘misleading misnomer of the year – 2019’ looks set to be won by Government of National Unity. Given the context in which it is being spouted out, it is as blatantly gibberish as last year’s winner Meaningful Vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    Pain, yup, agreed totally, that or shift border into Irish Sea


    It's all very confusing at the moment so lets hope for a yes or no from somewhere that covers everyone. Perhaps a Parliamentary vote once it's all published?

    There are some things I am finding difficulty in:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    Varadkar told reporters. “I don’t fully understand how we can have Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in a separate customs unions and somehow avoid there being tariffs and checks and customs posts between north and south.”
    Isn't this where the later transition stage kicks in and we agree a FTA? Couldn't the FTA remove the checks and tariffs?

    No ambassador wanted to reject the British proposals outright, but they are seeking to understand whether the British will move further, not only on customs, but also on the proposed “Stormont lock”, a deeply problematic idea for the EU because it puts the status of Northern Ireland up in the air every four years, and appears to give the DUP a veto.
    Isn't it essential making it a devolved issue to NI? Woudn't that be a good thing under the GFA? And a review every 4 years allows them to change their mind which is surely more democratic than a once in a generation vote (where have I been hearing this argument?...).

    https://www.msn.com/g00/en-gb/news/u...c.encReferrer=

    "No party – not my party, not Sinn Fein, not the DUP - should be in the position to veto what will be the will of the majority in Northern Ireland and Ireland," Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said on Thursday after meeting Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven in Stockholm.
    Really? So, Varadkar is happy to veto the EU-UK deal affecting a massive region of countries but not NI & ROI? Isn't his party already defining how his country approach all this?

    If the party in charge of reviewing the 4 year lock have been elected by the people via a democratic vote following an election based on a mandate then wouldn't that be inline with the GFA? It does affect ROI too but isn't that again part of NI being able to follow their own path if they choose to? Are they to be bound by ROI even if they choose to go separate? So, Varadkar would have a problem with them declaring independence then too?

    I can't help thinking this is nonsense. I don't understand a great deal about Irish politics on either side so hopefully someone can explain this.

    Currently NI have devolution through Stormont despite the mess they have put it in. If we put a backstop in covering NI then they will be accepting rules set by the EU and have less of a say in their trade than the route BoJo is offering. Why does that make more sense?

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...cid=spartanntp

    The MEPs said: “The right of consent being offered to the Northern Irish assembly effectively makes an agreement contingent, uncertain, provisional, unilateral, instead of the safety net provided for by the backstop.

    “Furthermore, the Northern Irish assembly has not sat for nearly three years, and it is questionable whether it would be able to reconvene and take on the responsibility for an international treaty of this nature.”
    Then we need to get Stormont sorted out then and this should be motivation for them to come together to sort the border issue out. Promoting working together is a good thing and the text in the GFA promotes this doesn't it? They would have UK support anyway.

    A European commission spokeswoman said it was up the British government to move its position for progress to be possible, and that Juncker had made that point in a phone call with Johnson.She said: “There are problematic points in the UK’s proposal and further work is needed. This work is for the UK to do, not the other way around.”


    Surely it's in the interests of all to work towards a solution?

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    Mr Varadkar said there were five ways to avoid a hard border – the reunification of Ireland; the Irish Republic re-joining the UK; the UK remaining in the single market and customs union; the border backstop mechanism; or the UK reversing the Brexit decision.
    Doesn't this demonstrate why people are wary of the backstop? Varadkar would veto anything else. No technology solution seems suitable to him now and we don't know if there ever will be.

    Barnier calling it a trap is the big laugh though OK when you set one though eh? We can call it a safety net or contingency plan or perhaps a backstop?
    Last edited by MyNameIsTerry; 05-10-19 at 03:39.
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  3. #1603
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    When our supreme commander lends his weight to Brexit then you know it gotta be the wrong move. Does anyone trust that BoJo guy of yours? Bozo would be better name. And why does his Yank woman tech enterprene look like a porno actress? She's can't be for real

  4. #1604
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Nope, most people see him as a buffoon or just out for himself. He's been popular because he's a bit of a buffoon but he has always been laughed at. The trouble is we are in a time where there is little talent out there. He was voted in by party members anyway with Theresa May resigning so the public have not had a say yet. But he's got plenty of names from bozo to ones we can't get past the swear filter the Yank woman you mention is down as an actress on Google, says she's a former model and bragged about pole dancing for Bozo...so you've got to wonder about the porn actress possibility
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  5. #1605
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Over 500K Indians visit UK in single year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/o...in-single-year

    Since this figure comes from official government sources, the real number is probably triple that.

    This means that Indians with fake degrees will replace the EU nationals who no longer want to settle in the UK because of Brexit. Any free trade agreement with India will mean free movement of people, they will make sure of that.

    Indians hijacked the Ugandan economy in the 70s, taking over whole industries and only hiring other Indians in top jobs. The same thing is now happening in Britain. In the end, Idi Amin had no choice but to expel them from the country.

  6. #1606
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Them damn injuns

  7. #1607
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Fake degree huh? Hot damn how come I never thought of that. But one look at me in an interview and I'd never of got that sales job at Purdue Pharma. You gotta admire the folk who can talk their way into a job without degree. Just proves what kinda qualities them corporation are looking for. Lies, deceit and bullshit. Most highly valued values in our society. If it come down to hard work then all them single moms in my neighborhood would be billionaire by now.

  8. #1608
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by lebonvin View Post
    Fake degree huh? Hot damn how come I never thought of that. But one look at me in an interview and I'd never of got that sales job at Purdue Pharma. You gotta admire the folk who can talk their way into a job without degree. Just proves what kinda qualities them corporation are looking for. Lies, deceit and bullshit. Most highly valued values in our society. If it come down to hard work then all them single moms in my neighborhood would be billionaire by now.
    I think what they do is get a fake degree or qualification from somebody pretending to run an educational establishment. They do this to get illegal entry in the UK and immigration are supposed to ensure their study is legit.

    Hollow would have to answer it but he might also be talking about the same being done illegally in India to try to get money off them so they can leave the country. It may also be about lower educational standards but these would be less likely since we have many frameworks and they clear who they accept whether a training company in the UK or internationally.

    For instance, we have a completely unregulated mental health sector (other than a couple of professional titles and obviously psychiatry is covered by doctors licences) so we plenty of training companies that also run supposed associations. You can do a 100 hours of online study, get letters after your name and get auto enrolled into an association that the guy who runs the training company also owns so you now have a professional membership to your name. You can use this in your advertising. But there has been a far bit of work, although still a long way off, to accredit a small number of associations as the only standard we should go by and anyone else isn't considered up to standard. These associations have more recently used government professional standards boards to assess their credibility too.

    So, like you say...deceit and BS. One of the business terms that you know means you are talking to a corporate android is "perception management" which is basically steering anyone away from noticing how shite you have been.
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  9. #1609
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow View Post
    Over 500K Indians visit UK in single year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/o...in-single-year

    Since this figure comes from official government sources, the real number is probably triple that.

    This means that Indians with fake degrees will replace the EU nationals who no longer want to settle in the UK because of Brexit. Any free trade agreement with India will mean free movement of people, they will make sure of that.

    Indians hijacked the Ugandan economy in the 70s, taking over whole industries and only hiring other Indians in top jobs. The same thing is now happening in Britain. In the end, Idi Amin had no choice but to expel them from the country.
    I realise you have concerns over standards (is it the fake certs they get over here from a friend just as they use to pretend they are studying to gain a visa or do you mean lower standards or fake standards in India itself?) particularly in the IT sector and we know India will push for more visas as they have said so (and it's just part of trade deals these days anyway) but do you expect it will increase overall immigration levels or merely change the %'s?
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  10. #1610
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post
    Different subject:

    ‘Labour MP, Sarah Jones represented the Opposition on Thursday night
    [on the BBC’s Question Time] but after her attempt to explain the party’s recent Brexit policy, Twitter users took to social media to hit out at the party. Quizzed by Fiona Bruce over the party’s recent decision to remain neutral, Ms Jones admitted that the party stance was “not easy to explain”.’ (via The Express).

    “not easy to explain”!!! is prevarication or ignorance of the facts (but probably both). We’re back to *McGuffin, folks – pretend there’s a really important plan/policy when in reality all they’ve been discussing behind-closed-doors is who buys the biscuits and whether TV’s Carborundum Street is better than DeadEnders. The Labour Party (may history forgive them) are prepared to chuck all principles and ideals to the dogs in pursuit of POWER. I wonder what they’d do with it if by some quirk of chicanery they were ever again in the position to wield the magic wand of POWER….? Tony Wedgwood Benn must be writhing with embarrassment in his grave.

    *McGuffin should be MacGuffin. I recently found this out when I was attempting to explain the use of the word in the Brexit setting and looked to see if there might be a Wiki entry. Sure enough, good old Wiki pages has a concise definition and history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin My version must be the Irish derivative… the one with extra Blarney.
    Just seen here on The Chase, Pain. In the cash builder the following happened...

    Bradley: What is the Labour Party's current policy on Brexit?

    Sarah: Pass.

    Bradley: Correct!



    Damn it I've been getting my celtic "Guffins" wrong! Thanks for the correction.

    It's just strategy and it is a terrible one. They are too afraid to come down off that fence because they have the members who are Remain/Revoke but the majority of voters aren't members and Labour is worried about the strongholds in the Midlands and North. They lost mine at the last GE for the first time since it was created in 1950! To the Tories! This is an area destroyed by Thatcher and we have pits around here so there are long memories let alone our collapsed steel works and the whole pottery industry decimated by globalism.

    Fence sitting has proven a failure for Corbyn. The Lib Dems are stealing his voters. TBP have stolen some of his voters. How many more is he prepared to lose?

    His MP's have been demanding they clear it up for a long time and it was obvious when they were destroyed in the EU elections. So, now we have Corbyn on the fence telling everyone he loves them but you have Starmer next to him saying they should go Remain. Now if they get in isn't Starmer the likely candidate to be sent to negotiate the Labour Brexit deal? And he is quite clearly saying he wouldn't back his own deal if he didn't think it was good enough. But what is good enough? As good as we have now? That's nt going to happen but how can a party campaign against their own deal? That's as weak a negotiating position to take as you will find. I can understand they advising the best option but open campaigning sounds far from this. Madness.

    I do not believe the EU will give Corbyn a CU with the addition of a say in Commission deals. That's a vote and the only ones who get that are full EU members. The Swiss only have it within the context of their customs deals because they are bilateral. Turkey don't have this and neither will the likes of San Marino. If they give to us the rest will demand it too and it is against EU policy anyway so it's opening a big problem for the EU. They don't want the inconvenience of the deal with NI/ROI Boris has just suggested and they won't want to change their CU's for the future due to this either.

    Corbyn is being disingenuous, or he doesn't understand the CU's that exist and the EU rules. You can promise anything when you are the opposition though.

    Given what Varadkar has said about the options he will only accept you can see a trade deal will also be impossible too. If we No Deal they will simply demand a backstop in the trade deal and all this nonsense kicks off again. If we agree to the backstop he will demand one of his options and the only one that fits into a trade deal is a CU. So, we can end the CU when we want but end up stuck in the backstop again which we can't leave. Is ROI worried about EU attention on them with Macron demanding changes to taxes which will hit them as firms relocate elsewhere and the fact they have only just become a net payer which might change due to Brexit until they recover?

    I'm not sure there is any way forward other than No Deal now. And like I have said I expect any future trade discussions to be marred by the border issue as the EU want to take control again.

    Something interesting is that Boris has stated this new deal on the border would mean checks of UK goods on the NI side but not on our side. That's a concession to protect the SM as the EU wanted as it stops the US using NI as a way over the border. But hey, it's not enough and Varadkar wants one deal only and will not budge on anything. I can't see much of any concession from the EU throughout any of this other than you can leave, citizens will be protected (not really a concession anyway), you can have SM market access like the rest if planet earth...

    It remains to be seen what else Boris is willing to move on. But otherwise it's full UK backstop, NI backstop or No Deal. There is nothing else. With the NI backstop I would propose a referendum to them only and if they want it, let them have it. Any concerns over it being a stepping stone to reunification is for them to decide in the vote and this would satisfy the GFA.
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