the EU & the UK

[MyNameIsTerry]

19 Labour MP's have sent a letter to Juncker and Tusk pleading for the EU to work on a deal.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...ey-pledge-vote

I'm guessing these are the ones the Tories have been meeting with to secure their votes?

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

Both the DUP and Sinn Fein have turned down the "double majority" veto floated to ensure both unionists and republicans have a say. But the EU has already agreed no third party could anyway in true Commission style as that's their viewpoint on deals anyway. This seems a little at odds with the spirit of the GFA to me and progressive would be allowing NI to have more say in NI issues but I do think 4 years is too soon as the arguments would probably start overlapping so much they needed back-to-back votes to cover the years missed.

Back to the backstop trap. I suspect the Irish Sea will end up the line. The trouble is the backstop can't stay in place so the FTA will mean we are back to arguing over a special Customs Union for NI. Oddly that would allow a little more power on our side since we would have an agreement we can talk about rather than being stuck in a 3rd party backstop with no say on anything. But it would be a permanent CU or something equivalent as this issue only comes back around under NI changes in some way e.g. reunification.

It depends whether a FTA will address anything. The EU love CU's because they mean you give then power whereas FTA's are bilateral.

[lebonvin]

Yous Brits can't even govern yourself. That's why you need the EU. Their sane

[MyNameIsTerry]

This in interesting:

22/06/2018.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...claude-juncker

Juncker told Irish MPs and senators in a joint session of parliament in Dublin: “With pragmatism comes realism. As the clock to Brexit ticks down, we must prepare for every eventuality, including no deal. This is neither a desired nor a likely outcome. But it is not an impossible one. And we are getting ready just in case.“We will use all the tools at our disposal, which could have a cushioning impact.

13/12/2008.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/...brexit-europe/

He said he would publish on 19 December "all the information that is generally useful for the preparation of no deal".

19/12/2018

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1OI2SJ

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland on Wednesday disclosed its first major set of contingency plans in case Britain crashes out of the European Union without a withdrawal deal, including possible emergency measures to avoid any shortages of medicines and food.

Deputy Prime Minister Simon Coveney described the plans as “stark”, but said his government was not yet making plans to defend the European Single Market along Ireland’s 500-km (310-mile) land border with the British region of Northern Ireland. Instead, the 130-page document detailed plans to boost infrastructure at the country’s ports and airports, and dozens of pieces of legislation to defend everything from the country’s health system to its joint electricity market with Northern Ireland.

So, from this I take it that the EU have a plan for No Deal and how to deal with a WTO border. I've sene various reports saying they have been ready for a while and Barnier's deputy was working on the lorry parks that would sit back from the border as reported some months back.

Which brings me to this statement:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

The group also met with a number of representatives in Ireland, before the meeting the group said they would push on more clarity.

“Our key question for Irish politicians is going to be: ‘What is the plan for the Irish border? What is it going to look like?’ Now no-deal looks very likely, we’ve seen no plan for that yet,” Mr McGennity added.

“We fully support the Irish Government, they’ve done a good job, and we still want to see the backstop implemented too. But from where we stand today, we have no idea what no-deal looks like.

”Tuesday’s Irish budget for 2020 saw a 1.2 billion euro (£1.07 billion) package to respond to Brexit, with 650 million euro (£582 million) made available to support the agriculture, enterprise and tourism sectors.

This is a welcome addition, the group says, but concerns remain for the northern side of the border.“Certainly it’s good that the Government is reacting,” Mr McGennity added.

“The key is how the border is going to be managed.

“The issue is on the northern side – we have no financial assistance for businesses, that’s going to have to be raised with the British Government, but they are very much stuck in the frame of getting no-deal, having an election and shoring up a Conservative majority.

”Concerns were heightened around the Irish border last week when a trailer loaded with new customs vehicles was brought to Dundalk, Co Louth. The group said the Irish Government could be more transparent about its plans when it comes to those most affected by changes at the border.

Mr McGennity added: “It’s a noticeable change around the border now. The change happened last Monday when they saw the customs cars arriving in Dundalk, that was the first tangible thing. People said: ‘This is now happening’, and people believe there is going to be a no-deal.

“Is there going to be checks? That’s what people are asking us.

“I think the Irish Government are playing their cards close to their chest and I can understand why the Irish government cannot be seen to be preparing for no-deal, and we need to face reality sooner or later and I think it’s going to be close.”

That was from a meeting on 9/10/2019.

How can the EU be ready if no one has seen a plan? We can see above there is a plan but surely to enact a WTO border you need to do a lot more than simply get customs officials there? If so why are UK businesses saying they are having to work and spend money to prepare for the additional documentation that WTO rules mean?

Why have the ROI not prepared their own people? Their own businesses? If this group is saying they have sene no plan then they don't have a public awareness campaign going.

There must be some serious concern if you lived near this border. How do you go about your day in less than a month when no one is telling you what it will look like?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Here is something interesting considering the new deal by BoJo.

18/09/2018.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8543906.html

The EU has moved to soften its backstop proposal for the Irish border in a bid to win Theresa May’s support for it and prevent a no-deal Brexit.Chief negotiator Michel Barnier said the “improved” version of the backstop “is not a border” and that “most checks can take place away from the border: at the company premises or in the markets”.

And here is BoJo wanting what looks very similiar in his new deal:

6/10/2019.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...dlock-analysis

The most problematic elements relate to customs. Johnson proposes the use of technology, a streamlined system, exemptions for small companies and schemes for trusted companies. He also proposes that any physical checks could be done at businesses or “designated locations”.

If ROI are so against Johnson's plan then I would like to know why they were happy with Barnier's? Both create a border in that there are checks and this was in a deal situation, not WTO.

The EU position now, as we have seen them defend since BoJo came out with his plans:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

Under a U.K. proposal, there would have to be customs checks on some goods, though not on the border itself. The EU says any customs checks are unacceptable

So, which checks was Barnier talking about? He did say remote and at place of import/export/manufacturer company from what I could see.

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...mmit-live-news

David Sassoli, president of the European parliament, said that any Brexit extension should be to allow the British public to express their views - either through an election, or a referendum. He also revealed that he had discussed Brexit with the Commons Speaker, John Bercow. (See 2.45pm.)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

This week the president of the European Parliament, David Sassoli, suggested making a general election or a second referendum a condition of extension.

That would seem to cause some problems then. Also it was interesting that Varadkar was pushing the referendum approach claiming the UK had changed it's mind.

[lebonvin]

In whose opinion, mon brave? I think most folks would agree we Brits did ok for ourselves, right up until we cashed in all sense and reason and allowed (some of) ourselves to be coerced into 'The Common Market' by those who should've known better. At the moment we have about two-thirds of parliament who are quite happy with the EU doing their job for them, and one-third who've seen the writing on the wall. Trouble is, that two-thirds majority thinks it's representative of more than half the population who bothered to vote to leave the EU, when in reality they're representing somewhat less... hardly fair, eh?

Yous Brits need more regulation not less. Your BoJo couldn't organize a coffee morning in Starbucks lol.

Yous got the most unequal country in Europe and you vote in an elitist

You need EU to restore balance

[lebonvin]

You guys still think yous got empire lol
You never won WW 2 we did but I guess your history books tell different
Colonies doing much better without your help thanks
Yous need EU more than they need you

[lebonvin]

Who gives a shit iif EU is a bit protectionism so is China and Japan and USA and their all doing better than UK

EU got a lotta clout cozza its size they can get trade deals better than what you can get alone

[lebonvin]

As a yank your Brexit gig won't effect me. But I do care about my black brothers, other minorities and LGBT who will suffer more oppression because of it because of racism and reduced opportunities all because of your private school elitists and their power to stir up empire craving. Eve your business leaders doesn't want out yous only gotta look at who wants out and that tells you it's a irreversible mistake good luck