the EU & the UK

[MyNameIsTerry]

If parliament accurately reflected the way in which folks voted in the Brexit Referendum, then we wouldn’t have the one third leave to two thirds remain MP imbalance, which is actually misrepresentation. But remember, Brexit only uncovered this imbalance of MPs not representing their electorate, it didn’t create it (it’s been going on forever – in all sorts of policy areas).

Doesn't that raise a much deeper point about our elected representatives? How many understand what their constituents feel? How many MP's come from those areas for a start and how many worked their way up without going through some Oxford/Cambridge style route into politics and a nice Mercedes?

We have so many Remain MP's more because they are middle class don't we? They are more insulated from the problems in society. They are also more likely to earning from the benefits of the SM which is geared towards employers.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Anyone with any nous knows exactly what’ll happen if No Deal were to be taken out of the equation. There’d be a cry of victory from the remainers as they forced the issue that there was no longer anything to negotiate and no reason not to accept all and sundry in EU terms of a ‘deal’; a deal which would be effectively not only remaining in the EU but with even more binding non-negotiable ties.

I fear a situation in which we leave the EU with or without a deal, only for some contrived plot between remainers and the EU Commission to automatically reinstate us, with a mandatory commitment to adopt the Euro, relinquish the Thatcher rebate and accept federalism; all as the price (punishment) for Brexit.

In the increasingly likely event of us not having left the EU before a GE is held, the Conservatives would lose middle-ground votes if they campaigned on a No Deal manifesto – there would be many who’d just not bother to vote. TBP would undoubtedly pick off hardline Brexiteers if the PM didn’t talk tough…. Boris is stymied on that zip wire again! But…. TBP just won’t do any good as a domestic political party – so there’s no real point in voting for them as the party to deliver Brexit, only as a wasted protest vote against the Conservatives. Swinson/Johnson pact? Hardly!!! And then we’re left with Mr Corbyn’s circus – what are his manifesto policies? Is he bringing back Clause 4? If he were to apply that only to public utilities, I could actually support it. But otherwise….?

For leavers, Boris’s deal starts to look quite attractive when we’re forced to face the alternatives!

The EU would laugh at us if No Deal was taken off the table. They understand how to walk away. Perhaps Mr Barnier will remind us not to bring a knife to a gunfight at some point?

I think my concern is that we end up with a 2nd referendum with a very poor soft Brexit choice vs Remain. I'm stuck there, it would have to be the soft choice. That wouldn't mean I agreed with it but unfortunately we can only hope to reflect our disdain at the ballot box (if we even have parties to represent that disdain).

The minute the WAB goes through we will move from Project Remain/Revoke to Project Re-Entry. To be honest, I would agree that we lose all our privileges in re-joining as these are unpopular with other members of the EU and it would be the price for re-joining the club. I would say if you want it expect Schengen, Euro and everything else as they pull in that direction Juncker announced after the referendum. Some will be fine with that, others will have to live with it, the rest of us can go back to our usual lives being ignored by politicians of all stripes and being more apathetic.

Agreed, TBP are only any use in keeping the pressure up. The minute Farage disappeared UKIP imploded and Parliament started on weakening the WA knowing it was back to business as usual with them ignoring anyone outside certain regions. Farage returns and the pressure is back on. Those voting TBP need to check how it impacts on those seats and the Remain campaigners have bene doing this for ages (Miller even has a website to advise people about it).

Swinson has offered a GE to Boris. I'm not sure I would put it past her to put career well ahead of their own voters (again). She is in a marginal though so it could be risky and the SNP are in agreement with her deal. She could get booted.

I expect Jezza's campaign to be all about the rest and should anyone ask a question about their Brexit stance. All while his own front bench say different things.

[MyNameIsTerry]

No wonder Amber Rudd is a Remainer: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ly-Remain.html

[MyNameIsTerry]

For crying out loud! And remainers have the brass neck to imply hardline, upper echelon leavers are calumnious…..

Quick word on taking a knife to a gunfight. In The Magnificent Seven, James Coburn’s character did just that… and came out as the one still alive. Perhaps Boris might like to borrow my sword of cynicism and green shield of virtue, all forged from Britain's finest Sheffield steel (as mentioned in the intro to The Full Monty)

Hmm. I doubt Mr Corbyn could pull of James Coburn with a knife. But he might be a dab hand with a strangely misshapen carrot. He can't take his prize turnip to negotiations as it's currently fulfilling at least 3 front bench shadow minister positions

I wouldn't recommend offering your sword to Boris, it might be mean something totally different to old Etonians

[MyNameIsTerry]

For crying out loud! And remainers have the brass neck to imply hardline, upper echelon leavers are calumnious…..

Quick word on taking a knife to a gunfight. In The Magnificent Seven, James Coburn’s character did just that… and came out as the one still alive. Perhaps Boris might like to borrow my sword of cynicism and green shield of virtue, all forged from Britain's finest Sheffield steel (as mentioned in the intro to The Full Monty)

Look at the names involved:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

I think many will be more interested in retaining a current stream of money to their businesses/friends businesses than ensuring democracy for us all

[lebonvin]

Hark ye hark ye o mighty Lord Pain wherefour art thou my olde manne?

I guess not a great imitation of Shakesy. That Shakesy could write tho and his words made sense, at least to the folk of his time. I'm from your time but you lost me already. All I see is fancy words from a very average kinda guy trying to pretend he's a learned poshtik.

So yous lordship is now a soothsayer of polls what don't yet exist. And an old movie kinda guy with your opinions formed from fiction scenes in them movies. Youd do better watching Joker.

But don't mind me. I'm just a bitter twisted tranny yank.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Are you sure about class being a factor in leave/remain sentiment among the population, Terry? I know the pundits have made much out of this perceived schism in society, but from my own viewpoint it seems that bucket only holds water if you’re wandering around the home counties and London (or Oxford and Cambridge). Of course, you could be back into the contentious suggestion that the majority of leavers are from a lower stratum of society and are therefore too thick to understand the implications of their actions, or to know on which side their bread’s buttered…. This is scurrilous and demonstrably untrue!

The which Blair project has resurfaced. We now have the one where teflon Tony appears to be all reasonableness and light, with a spoonful of concilliation thrown in for sweetness. He proposes a three-option second referendum, with those choices being: leave with no deal, leave with Boris’s deal, remain. Sounds ok? Not at all! The bloke knows exactly where this would lead. The leave vote would be split and remain would thieve the prize…. I can even predict the percentage outcome, should such an underhand piece of malarkey ever come to pass: leave with no deal = 17%, leave with Boris’s deal = 35%, remain = 48%.... wicked act done! And just to muddy the waters, the GE should be held on the same day….

True, it was a generalisation. What I meant is that there is a larger section in certain classes who have benefitted more from the EU than others and this is why they are more likely to dominate the Remain vote.

Nope, not too thick...since I'm one of those people too and so are my family. Whilst I've had a career taking me into being a professional I was always more likely to be in the pub after work than the local coffee shop with a copy of The Guardian!

Ah, is Blair back as one of the sneaky little snakes again? Yep, I'm fine with a 3 way referendum...but Deal and No Deal get added together But this is the bloke that wouldn't give a vote because he didn't value the voters despite kissing their babies in the run up to elections.

Holding a GE and referendum on the same day sounds like a good way to muddy the waters even more. Which one is Jeremy talking about in today's interview? Does he even know?

I see Jeremy has backed the LibDem/SNP motion. It is supposed to take No Deal off the table but I haven't scrutinised that yet. I can't see how anyone can permanently do so as the EU hold 50% of that card.

I see they are already trying to bias it by lowering voting age and allowing EU nationals to vote. Imagine if they all said they wanted to vote Leave? I bet that amendment would be scuppered immediately by the very parties who want it now ? Such things should be a debate for another time rather than a cynical opportunity for the win. Hopefully 16-17 year olds realise they don't really care, they just want your vote. They want let you buy a beer but they will let you vote on important issues to the country. Seems a bit of a pisstake to me

A pity they didn't support Lucas' amendments which seemed worthwhile to me:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

[lebonvin]

Looks like yous guys got your general erection

[Carnation]

Hi, not been here for a while, mainly because I felt myself repeating the same stuff to the same situation.
The word on the streets as present, well, there isn't anymore, people are just getting on with their lives with an occasional comment like......
"It's an embarrassment", "What a sham Parliament is", "We are the laughing stock of the world", "How will they cope with a real crisis?"
And now with this General Election on the cards, can people be bothered to vote at all?
I find it too painful to watch or listen to any member of Parliament and with Guy Fawkes approaching, they are seriously open to a re-enactment.
And the more serious issues of the country like the homeless, the sick and the elderly are forgotten.
Here I go again going over old ground and for nearly 4 years!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Looks like yous guys got your general erection

Yep, the run up to Christmas will now be a mixture of adverts flogging us stuff endlessly, the good charity ads and party political broadcasts by each bunch of clowns. To be honest I wish they could have got in with the withdrawal instead because they probably will need into January for it now. If Labour get in we go back 6 months and start all over again as they want a different withdrawal.