the EU & the UK

[Lencoboy]

My own personal take on this is it will be met with derision, whatever the outcome.

Especially with our society being full of know-it-alls who believe only their views and personal agendas count, and screw everyone else!!

And this is in both the Remain and Leave camps.

[Lencoboy]

Well, Pain, I think your earlier point of a clean break to then come back to the table is the most likely to wake them up. Im still up for a deal but my previous 'work together' stance has hardened after watching the games.

Sadly that means some extra problems with additional paperwork and adjustments to tariffs. But I'm not sure there is any other way after watching this all the way. We should not be in this ridiculous situation this late on.

I wonder whether Boris cares though? Even PMs who prove themselves worthless go on the ex leaders gravy train. Does he want a legacy or simple a stepping stone to more cash?

Regardless I think if he bungles it the Tories will get their knives out and a new leader will emerge. They simply can't allow Farage to return and a bad deal opens the door to him. You see so many saying they will vote that way if Boris fails. I don't think it will swing the Red Wall to Starmer because he is remembered for being the man behind Labour's failed Brexit policy and I don't think he's the man to win those seats back anyway with the current front bench including types that typically annoy northern Labour voters. Whilst Starmer quickly accepted it had to happen many will be wary of whether be would give more away or pave the way to rejoining. He's one of those who changes with the wind like Boris. And he has tried to put all the blame on Corbyn when he should shoulder much of it too.

Liz Truss is doing well getting the continuation deals (with some adjustments for UK markets in some) through. She could be their rising star list Boris. The others don't see to have done so well or are marred by failure and scandal.

I think on the other hand, Keir Starmer seems to get a lot of the blame for Corbyn's past issues.

Just as ludicrous IMO as blaming Boris for whatever Thatcher did wrong back in the 80s!!

[Lencoboy]

Pain.

Although I'm just as concerned as you and many others about all of this, attempting to compare the situation right now with the 1940s and BoJo with Winch is like comparing apples with oranges.

Very different times.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I think on the other hand, Keir Starmer seems to get a lot of the blame for Corbyn's past issues.

Just as ludicrous IMO as blaming Boris for whatever Thatcher did wrong back in the 80s!!

But Starmer was one of his top ministers. This is why he shouldn't be allowed to escape criticism over anti Semitism either, which he has tried, because he sat next to Corbyn and did nothing. Just as Boris was a key player in some of the mess May resided over.

On Brexit Starmer was in charge of the Labour strategy. It was a failure from day one with northern voters and their own MPs told them. They pushed on, they got slaughtered. I have sympathy for that because the members wanted Remain so how can they turn on their own members to back Leave?

Starmer should not be allowed to wriggle out of those failures.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Boris Johnson wants to be his hero Winston Churchill. That is, the Winston Churchill who brought Britain victorious through WWII. However, he may find himself likened to an earlier version; the Winston Churchill who made some truly bad decisions, particularly the Dardanelles disaster. But, if Winnie could eventually salvage his ruined reputation then go on to be the stalwart leader many perceive him to have been…?

How well-founded is the growing suspicion all this tough-talk is merely preparatory posturing stage play for, dare I say it, capitulation? I hope sincerely that after four-and-a-half years of blood, sweat and tears, Mr Winston Johnson doesn’t throw in our hand for a mess of pottage and a quiet life.

Then there is the miserable possibility that the situation will remain unresolved through some devious machinations on either or both sides. Previously I’ve used that Groundhog Day wry observation [too] many times in the Brexit context. For goodness sake, I trust it’ll become unusable after December the 31^st 2020.

Hasn't a kicking the can down the road clause been mentioned for fisheries? It will never be solved.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Monsieur Macron demands his fair share of the stargazey pie. But what he won’t acknowledge is that it’s not his pie to share.

Whilst Merkel insists ALL pies must meet the same standard. A German standard, of course.

[debs71]

Frankly, I am sick to the back teeth of bloody Brexit.

My opinion as far as the EU goes is SOD THEM.......with knobs on. They have made this whole process as difficult as they possibly can as they simply refuse to let the UK set a precedent when it comes to leaving their dictatorial club. Herr Merkel reportedly said it herself - she wants to make us 'walk over broken glass' apparently. Their noses are well and truly put out of joint, so they continue throwing their toys out of the pram.

I would not give them the satisfaction of any kind of deal which even remotely keeps us tied to them, so just leave without one and be done with this farce.

[Lencoboy]

Although most people will no doubt be of the opinion that it's far from perfect, but at least we have finally got a 'Brexit deal' of some sort, rather than crashing out of the EU with full-on 'no deal', which only just days ago seemed like pretty much odds on.

IMO, another silver lining to the end of probably the toughest year since 1945.

Shoot me down in flames all you like as it's still a free country at the end of the day, but I'm merely expressing my own personal opinion.

Happy Christmas all.

[Lencoboy]

Well at least the Brexit deal thing dominating the news headlines over the past two days (for better or worse) has given us a bit of temporary respite from constant bombardment of all things Covid.

[Lencoboy]

An interesting compromise Brexit deal finally has been declared; one not immediately obvious in all its merits and dismerits, as viewed from the many perspectives of all concerned. Everyone always knew any sort of deal would have to be a compromise, but is it broad sunlit uplands or a budge too far? More will become known as the thing is dissected, discussed and digested.

One man who seems to believe it’s mostly acceptable (at the moment) is none other than Mr Leverage (correctly pronounced leaverage) aka Nigel Farage: the man whose actions ‘persuaded’ Mr Cameron’s government to hold the referendum other governments had mooted but never quite got round to holding.

Of course, only time will tell as to how everything pans out, but let's all just wait and see and try to give it a chance in the meantime, rather than jump to foregone conclusions as to whether it will be a mega success or an epic failure, or perhaps even a bit of both!