the EU & the UK

[MyNameIsTerry]

They certainly instilled fear, it was nicknamed Project Fear for that reason. By the end people were joking about when the prediction of the plague of locusts would be coming. It became a farce and I don't know how Cameron thought he would get anyone to believe it. It was clearly scaremongering. Leaving the EU would start wars. That's funny, we aren't at war with most of the world and they aren't in the EU!

The EU was doing that to us. Over the decades we have lost a lot of our manufacturing and it's not just the east. Basically, we have been weakened. We barely have any trade negotiators and use the EU ones...forward planning by those looking to make us weak.

We have that sentence over here. We have many low paid jobs and now we have companies actively recruiting abroad to bring them here. That's worse because they come for the work and then stay and those businesses lumber us with future problems to support them whilst the companies get their short term profit. The argument from the businesses was that they couldn't get British workers to fill the positions...there was a reason for that as you said.

Sadly, the EU's open borders policy allows unscrupulous practices aimed at profit that dump on the economy later. Such businesses will now be knackered when we leave, and that's a good thing. They may increase their wages.

We have an additional flaw though in this area, one created by our old friend Tony Blair. State benefits were increased so high that there are people who will end up worse off by working. This wasn't the case before. Some people have a genuine concern here - they want to work but because of their outgoings coming off benefits for a low paid job means they can't afford to live. But we also have people who have no intention of working as they see benefits as their right permanently.

Mass immigration doesn't work. Short term gain and long term pain.

[tp821634]

Biggest issue i see is it became a campaign of how big you could make some obscure guess seem. As said the remain bunch said the world was going to end and the remain bunch said we would all become millionaires.

There was so little fact in the whole thing. Only fact i could see was the UK contributes about 120mill a week to the EU after you take of the rebate, everything else was pure guess and predictions.

The EU shot themselves in the foot by some of the comments they made, the british public have never taken threats very well and some of the language said by the EU was only going to do one thing, and that was push the vote to a leave. Not to mention trade would stop without the EU free trade agreement, given how many country's are lining up to get trade deals, Germany leading the pack, just shows that was total rubbish.

It was very telling to me that a week before we were due to vote they came out and said the EU needs to change and reform. That was being said by the UK for years, yet they didn't listen which led to where we are now.

I have no doubt the UK can survive and stay the powerhouse it is, there will be some benefits from leaving and there will be some draw backs. I do believe we will be better off in the long run by leaving, 8 country's supporting 25 was never a good long term plan.

Had an interesting conversation with my dad last week and how the origional join the UE vote back in the day, it was touted as only a trade deal back then and not what it is now.

Short version, i have no doubt the UK will stay strong, whether we would have grown faster in or out of the EU we will never know.

[pulisa]

At least the fervent young people whose lives have been "destroyed" by Brexit have now found fresh inspiration in Pokémon......

[Noivous]

At least the fervent young people whose lives have been "destroyed" by Brexit have now found fresh inspiration in Pokémon......

hahaha..that is classic, Pulisa!

[pulisa]

Nooooooo ...You are not allowed to do that! You are destroying your future and will have to live in rags and eat pig swill for the rest of your days..

[MyNameIsTerry]

At least the fervent young people whose lives have been "destroyed" by Brexit have now found fresh inspiration in Pokémon......

Pokemon Go: Brexit Edition

It's a bit like giving a baby a mobile.

[Noivous]

Believe it or not some of us young people actually voted to LEAVE the EU....

It's people like you that give me hope lad.

N.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Nooooooo ...You are not allowed to do that! You are destroying your future and will have to live in rags and eat pig swill for the rest of your days..

When are the rationing books getting printed?

---------- Post added at 05:01 ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 ----------

Had an interesting conversation with my dad last week and how the origional join the UE vote back in the day, it was touted as only a trade deal back then and not what it is now.

Yeah, that was before my time too. They had a referendum to join based on trade, not all we have ended up with. This is why so many of the older generation seem annoyed about it.

The EU came along much later and we had no say in that as our politicians signed it off without any care for their people. The French were screwed over by the Treaty of Lisbon after they were rejecting a new constitution.

Whilst the French President may be quite hard-line against us, I don't think the French people are. Over 80% of them in polls have said they want him out next year. They seem quite Euro-sceptical so if Marine Le Penn gets in, and she has promised a referendum within 6 months of election, that will likely be France out. The EU would fold if they went too.

Now we have the silly games of the EU Commission. The alcoholic Drunker saying he is appointing a hardliner to hit us in the negotiations but he forgets that he cannot appoint anyone, only the EU Council can do that. He can only make a suggestion for candidates.

There's so much sabre rattling coming from the EU commission lot. Are they going to impose tough tariffs on the UK and knacker the German economy in the process? Whilst France, Spain, Italy (another Greece in the making) may be less allied over this, although France should consider it's huge wine sales to us, I can't see Germany letting a few little bitches impact on them out of spite against the UK.

---------- Post added at 05:05 ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 ----------

Believe it or not some of us young people actually voted to LEAVE the EU....

Do you think this might be because of the fact you are working, not a head in the clouds student who things he will leave with a degree and walk into a top job to then find a nice car & house + family just appear into his life?

Or maybe you don't work in Europe or the financial sector?

Despite what they say about the younger age groups voting to Remain, I can't see that in working class strongholds. They are just as sick of the job & benefit issues as people 10 years older than them. You might be young but you are a working man, someone who is in touch with reality and it's harshness, unlike students.

But here's an interesting thought. The referendum was anonymous. Aren't all the splits on age groups coming from polls? How accurate are these polls? We've seen how the SNP biased theirs during the Scottish referendum. The government know which way we voted if our voting slips had our registration number on, mine did as I voted by post, but have thy released details or is it just media outlets like the BBC who are just part of Project Fear themselves?

---------- Post added at 06:43 ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 ----------

Yeah I'd like to read that.

I can't find the article yet, but the statistics are out there showing the growth:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...dom/gdp-growth

On a yearly basis, the economy advanced 2.2 percent, better than market expectations of 2 percent and the best performance in a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/bu...exit.html?_r=0

Note:

Britain’s economic picture has worsened in recent months. Official growth forecasts for 2016 were revised downward on Wednesday, to 2 percent, compared with the 2.4 percent predicted earlier.

For next year, the growth forecast was trimmed to 2.2 percent, down from 2.5 percent previously.

The revised projections are based on the assumption that Britain stays in the European Union.

The IMF put 2016 at 1.9%, our people put us at 2%. So, we are doing better even with Brexit being there.

And whilst I can't find the article about Osborne saying Brexit was hitting us even before the vote, there is this statement her gave:

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/0...-fears-484104/

Mr Osborne said: "While Britain remains one of the fastest-growing advanced economies in the world, the IMF's warnings about our exit from the EU are stark. For the first time, we're seeing the direct impact on our economy of the risks of leaving the EU."

The Chancellor added: "If the British economy is hit by the mere risk of leaving the EU, can you imagine the hit to people's income and jobs if we did actually leave?

"The IMF has given us the clearest independent warning of the taste of bad things to come if Britain leaves the EU."

Mr McDonnell said: "This is another major downgrading of growth forecasts for this already downgraded Chancellor.

"It should act as a signal that George Osborne needs to change course and that Tory backbenchers who wildly scream for Brexit should think again. As these figures clearly suggest, it's the uncertainty facing the UK from the risk of leaving the EU coupled with a Chancellor who can't even meet his own targets that has led to such a concerning announcement."

The Leave campaign called them out on this for lack of evidence. The figures are in now, there was no pre-referendum wobble. Some shifting around but overall growth increased and one industry posted the best growth since 1999!

Another article here:

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-growth-...rexit-10259721

Scotiabank economist Alan Clarke said Brexit uncertainty ahead of the referendum was likely to have an impact on growth, but it was a "lazy assumption" to suggest that it had been a factor in the first quarter figures.

He said it was unlikely to hit GDP until the second quarter of the year, covering the current April-June period.

These were the kind of economists we had advising us so we could decide how to vote. Now we have the benefit of hindsight we see just how wrong they were.

---------- Post added at 07:40 ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 ----------

May is currently visiting all the heads of state in an attempt to get them onside against the idiotic nasties in the EU Commission, afterall it matters what the EU Council decide. She has been welcome by them so far, which seems to suggest they are open to working with us despite the mad ramblings of Drunker & co. I noted that these heads are saying how they want to keep trading with us.

Will that be ignored when negotiation starts? If they impose tariffs on us, we can do the same right back at them.

When she visited Ireland though she said free movement of labour would continue. This is fine for us, we have a longer relationship with Ireland than the EU anyway but I can't see the EU being happy with that special arrangement when we don't want it with any of the other parties. I guess it depends what the heads on the EU Council think rather than the nutjobs on the unelected EU Commission.

[Carnation]

Had an interesting conversation with my dad last week and how the origional join the UE vote back in the day, it was touted as only a trade deal back then and not what it is now

This is very true and not mentioned much in debates.

In fact, if you want to make comparisons on how we are financially at present in the UK, then look at the bare facts of the past.
I know for a fact that many, many of my generation and ongoing generations are now living with their parents, because if they are on their own, they just can not afford to live independently. Our parents were able to purchase their property, pay for it in full and also finish paying for it early, retire early, build a nest egg and enjoy their pension years with little worry of finance. This is also true of the previous generation; while we were out of the EU. Jobs were plentiful, you got pay rises, bonuses and overtime.
You could afford to eat out, go to the picture and get a taxi home without it making a big dent in your pocket. We had butchers, greengrocers and shops that sold fresh food Countrywide. We could pick and choose jobs and they felt secure with private pensions and sometimes healthcare. The roads were clearer and it was a joy to drive and people used to get their entertainment buy going out for a 'Sunday Drive' for fun!
You could repair your own car, unlike today where the simplest of repairs cost around £500, but more likely to be £1,000.
We had more choice in what we bought in the shops and everything was better made and to last! (A 1950s fridge will still work today, so do the cars!)
There were no credit cards and ludicrous loan deals, people didn't really need them.
There were no student loans and young people starting out in life with a debt of £20,000 plus.
Social life was better and you could go to see a band or go to a dance for nothing!
Utility Companies were manageable to pay and you could speak to a human on the phone.

Now, in my generation and ongoing generations, we seem to be dependent on our parents for a roof over our head, have very little money and more than likely no savings at all. We have nothing to pass down to our children and struggle from day to day with just the basics in life like eating and worry like crazy about how we will manage in the future.

Something HAD to change and let's hope Mr May knows what she is doing.

[MyNameIsTerry]

So, a good job we don't listen to the IMF then?

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/...cid=spartanntp

They got Brexit wrong too. It makes you wonder whether they are purely incompetent or receiving bungs.