the EU & the UK

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-hard-border

So it all fails and it's hard border time yet the Irish PM says it will be time to talk bilateral agreement. Sadly for him he's in the EU and trade deals are outside of his remit.

Will the EC make an exception? Or will they negotiate for Ireland? And what the feck difference is any of this to the last two years? Is it just more politicians telling the public not to worry?

What is important to the EU isn't the same as what's important to ROI. And that's one of the reasons we are stuck. The UK has one vision, ROI another and the EU a different one.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Protests already underway about a hard border.



I see we are now threatening not to pay up either? A bit of an empty threat, I guess.

You have got to love the non committal nature of politics though. Replace the backstop with "alternative arrangements" or "summat else" up here.

[mezzaninedoor]

Perseverance is the hard work you do after you get tired of doing the hard work you already did. Newt Gingrich ~ Im unsure whether the 2 years negotiation were as hard a work as we needed our MPs and Civil Servants to have engaged in !?!?!?!

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin D. Roosevelt ~ Brexiteers get a No Deal ?!?

We would all like to vote for the best man but he is never a candidate. Kin Hubbard

[MyNameIsTerry]

Visa free travel on the way:

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/eu-ag...rexit-11624541

It looks like the ETIAS will still be needed though.

I've seen since right old whinging about having to queue with the other countries of planet earth. And moaning about paying a few quid every few years for the ETIAS...nothing compared to the holiday cost or all the beer

Spain meddling as usual trying to stir up the Gibraltar debate. A bit strange of the EU allowing that considering there was a definite referendum knocking Spain back. Still, at least we allowed them the right to have a say and didn't send in the police to beat up their women

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/royal...5EJ?li=AAnZ9Ug

Those naughty Londoners

Move her to a Leave area or just the rest of the country who will be busy enough going to work, doing the shopping, etc

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yeah, it's been pretty ugly already. They've run out of catastrophizing terms obviously. But turning ugly seems quite a low key affair when they've been saying armageddon for two years

I've been expecting Mad Max in a very British sort of way so I've been stockpiling tea supplies in my bunker. I plan on crowning myself King of Yorkshire, well they will put me on the throne if they want any of their "proper" tea back In Mad Max it was Barter Town but this being Yorkshire I think we'll go with Barter T'town

London? Ah yes, that's that place where racial hate crimes have risen the greatest since Brexit. That's the Brexit that has empowered the bigots. But wait, are we bussing them in because that's Remain Central down there? Something is wrong here, surely we Leave voting bigoted regions should be topping the charts?

Where is Albert Steptoe when you need him? He got off the plane to Spain and shouted "Gibraltar is British" at the door

[mezzaninedoor]

I'm guessing in London where there are bigots ( and not all Leave voters are bigots of course ) they perhaps often have more for their views to rub up against, more friction with other less bigoted folks.

We have a lot of casual racism in Norfolk where I live, basically because we don't have that many immigrants but people still blame the immigrants. Things just slip out in conversation from folks and you think 'oi, oi'

[mezzaninedoor]

Bigot: ‘One blindly and obstinately devoted to a particular creed or party. Blind or excessive zeal. ‘ Chambers Dictionary definition. Surely that covers just about anyone who has strong or passionate views about anything, from football to Strictly Come Dancing to Flat-Earthers etc…?

I’ve noticed recently that loose leaf tea is becoming scarce in shops – but I think that’s more to do with folks not wanting all the perceivedbother of making a proper cup of tea. I only ever use leaf tea. Leaf tea is the only form of tea worthy of the name. Death to all teabags! Oh no! I’ve turned into a loose leaf tea bigot.

[/FONT]

I get what you are saying but isn't the key term here - 'blindly & obstinate'. Its possible to be passionate about something and still listen to other views on the subject.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Ah, so Mr Nissan was his usual self then. Just another one of his little blames. Rather than face the fact diesel sales are slumping across the EU.

I see what you mean about language. Racism is often used when both parties are the same colour, and usually white. Racism is often used when the issue is anti-religion e.g. Islamophobia and Anti Semitism. I think part of this can be laid at the media's door as they use wording they think most likely to grab people and they end up causing terms to morph into something else e.g. paedophilia is used to describe all child offences yet it's only a specific group within it hence the law doesn't use that term or any other of the relevant "philes".

---------- Post added at 02:30 ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 ----------

I'm guessing in London where there are bigots ( and not all Leave voters are bigots of course ) they perhaps often have more for their views to rub up against, more friction with other less bigoted folks.

We have a lot of casual racism in Norfolk where I live, basically because we don't have that many immigrants but people still blame the immigrants. Things just slip out in conversation from folks and you think 'oi, oi'

Yes, that's a good point. I was just being a bit sarcastic though as I've seen this whole Leave=racist nonsense peddled for ages and you would expect London to be the last place that is the worst. But then I think we know it's much more complicated than Brexit because as you zoom out to consider the other hate categories you will see homophobia & transphobia has also risen (further than racism, I think).

Perhaps it's more accurate to say we have more open idiots now?

And it's worth remembering that whilst London is the most multicultural we have large Asian or black communities further north too. Places like Bradford have been a powder keg for racism on both sides for a while so if it was going to blow up I would be expecting these places to be a problem too.

But wait, I forgot to remove all the detail from such a general headline about racism. What do I mean? Well, what about the Spanish attacks on London based Catalonians* during their referendum? What about all the non white Brit hate crime that also goes on every day? It's all in there and if we are saying more people are willing to come forward now that has to include one ethnic minority on another. Anti Semitism in universities has been found to be linked to more foreign students from certain areas of the world that are less sympathetic to Israel, or Jews, and don't see hate crime quite the same as we do.

* Yes, I know that's xenophobia but you know how stuff gets lumped together by the media.

[Carnation]

As a born and bred Londoner with cockney roots, I feel I have to give my view on Brexit.
First, I voted for Brexit. I am not racist or a bigot.
I've never been to a march or protest.
My decision for brexit was not an impulse choice and as Terry says, I was in the minority in my home town of London and following the results of the vote, faced verbal attacks on a regular basis from fellow residents in my town and beyond.
Mezzaninedoor, I have also lived in Norfolk, in fact your home town and learned very quickly the feelings to newcomers in the area. In fact it took many years before I was accepted in to the community.
My point is.....
Don't class or label people for the area they live in.
And don't think all the people that voted for brexit are racists.
If anyone is prepared to listen, we want control back of our country, to be asked about decisions that affect our future, to have housing, hospitals and food for our children, to grow more produce. I am currently surrounded by miles and miles of unused fields that could provide us with more home grown crops.

I met a chap quite recently in an upmarket village in Suffolk who was a remainer who turned out to haved lived abroad for most of his life and returned in latter life to benefit financial support with the added bonus of the NHS. These were his words, "I don't even class myself as British anymore". My thoughts, "So what are you doing back here?" ahh, yes, Britain can support you in your old age.
We have to think about the Country and its people as a whole. Some familes are counting their pennies to eat each week and on the other hand you have the chap popping over to the South of France and collecting a pay cheque from the Britsh government.
Charity begins at home and we have a major problem with our own kind being homeless. From people sleeping in the doorway of the old M & S in your home town mezzaninedoor to the street around the corner from 'Harrods' in London.