Intrusive thoughts vs real thoughts

[Shih tzu lover]

Hi. I'm new to this forum, and I suffer from intrusive thoughts. I have not yet been diagnosed with any disorders. Sometimes I doubt that my thoughts are intrusive. How do you tell the difference between intrusive thoughts and real thoughts? Is it possible to suffer from intrusive thoughts without any disorders? Sometimes I feel like I actually want to act out these thoughts. Are intrusive thoughts reasonless or do we have a reason for why we want to act out these thoughts? What causes these thoughts?

[hanshan]

Intrusive thoughts feel like they don't fit with who you think you are. Most people have this kind of thought from time to time, but they can put it out of their mind and soon forget they ever had it.

Yes, you can have intrusive thoughts without other disorders. Feeling that you want to act out an intrusive thought is frightening, but if you feel it is an intrusive thought, you won't act on it - it just isn't you.

Nobody knows for sure why intrusive thoughts occur. For the moment, be assured that they are not from the "you" that you know yourself to be.

If the thoughts keep coming back and are disturbing to you, you should seek some help from a doctor or counsellor.

[Shih tzu lover]

My intrusive thoughts started differently that others. I deliberately thought of myself killing a loved one, with no intention of doing it, but then I felt the urge to do it. Does this still count?

[hanshan]

I think that counts. Thinking of killing a loved one is a common intrusive thought, and so is the urge to do it. It is because it is a loved one that makes it irrational, frightening and an intrusion on who you are.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I've typed a lot of this up so many times on the OCD board but I've put quite a lot in this one which may help you:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=184847

Intrusive thoughts have been proven in studies to be experienced by all people. So, because of this they can also be experienced with any anxiety disorder. When they are the predominant issue, a diagnosis of OCD may be made.

I suggest you read about them. I good place in the US is Steve Seay's articles. He is a practicing licenced psychologist who treats OCD and his articles are excellent.

Intrusive thoughts can come on their own or they can be triggered. They will appear to pop into your mind out of nowhere. That's the normal description of an intrusive thoughts, that and that they are unpleasant. As hanshan also mentioned, they are "ego dystonic", the opposite of true character & beliefs and this is why you react with revulsion to them. The irony is, that will keep them reinforced and going and freeing yourself of them means changing that reaction as I will have covered in that other thread.

Something that is seem as a compulsion in OCD is "testing" and this differs to the usual cycle whereby a compulsion is an action following. With this the sufferer attempts to trigger their thoughts to check they react with revulsion. I've covered this in the other thread too.

So, were you trying to test yourself when you consciously considered violence?

I would say that it's not even worth analysing the origin, you may never find it. You don't need to know that to recover from them. The thing that matters is that you are not what you fear you may be, you are a normal balanced person because truly violent people don't worry about thoughts like this or acting them out - and I've known people like that and anxiety was certainly not an issue for them. It's not a judgement of your character, the fact you react with revulsion was your character...and this can change as you work through them as explained in that other thread so please don't worry if you because desensitised to them either. Facts in the medical world prove it's extremely rare for anyone to act out these thoughts but instead you will likely act out some level of compulsion instead (which won't be violent at all, it's often a covert or mental compulsion).

Intrusive thoughts can come in different form too. You can have thoughts, imagery, urges or a combination. I've had all of those and I've beaten my intrusive thoughts twice now.

[Shih tzu lover]

Triggered?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Triggered?

The subconscious is constantly monitoring what we experience and it makes checks to memory in case something is relevant. So, there can be a trigger in some cases like seeing something that is in some way a reminder of the thought.

A good example of this is how we may have a panic attack in the same place. Memory has recorded such a strong fearful experience and it can be triggered again.

Does that make sense? I don't mean "caused by", just that the subconscious has made some sort of link, often subtle or based on a poor connection.

Other forms of memory phenomena work like this such as the emerging accepted research into Mind Pops. These are without the horrible subjects found in intrusive thoughts but work in the way I've just described.

[Shih tzu lover]

The tests you mentioned started my intrusive thoughts. I felt pleasure when seeing someone in a movie die, so I felt guilty. To get rid of the guilt, I decided to "test" myself, like you mentioned. I deliberately thought of the worst thing a person could do and thought of myself doing it. Then I felt the urge to do it.

[hanshan]

Unfortunately, somewhere in the human subconscious is a fascination with death and destruction - perhaps it is part of our survival mechanism. Some movies focus on this with guns, bombs, knives killing people, aliens threatening the entire human race ... Many people enjoy this without feeling guilty - if they do they tell themselves that it is just a movie.

So if you enjoyed a movie with killing in it doesn't make you a potential murderer, and there is no need to devise tests for yourself. At some stage you will have to ask yourself whether you really want to watch that sort of movie, but you have time for that, and it's not such a scary decision.

[Shih tzu lover]

How do I tell the difference between my thoughts and desires? Sometimes I feel like I actually want to act out the thought.

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:43 ----------

Also, can intrusive thoughts start like the way I mentioned above, by testing. I keep doubting these are intrusive thoughts.