OCD about thoughts and free will anyone?

[GeraltRiva]

Hey guys,



It seems like I unfortunately got a new theme.

I was again trapped in deep thinking and thought too much about the nature of conciousness. I asked myself what is the origin of our thoughts? Where do they come from? Are they somehow predefined? All these questions made me panick a lot. Everytime I'm making a decision I ask myself "Was it really me who made this decision?" "What made me decide this way?". I feel like I can't trust my own thoughts, eventhough deep down I know that it's irrational and the way I think is fine like it was all my life.

I'm scared that I somehow loose my identity or my mind. I'm feeling like going insane once more.

Does anyone of you have experience with that kind of thoughts? It's really depressing my at the moment...



best

---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------

My obsession and anxiety sticks to the concept of fate. The image that everything is predefined terrifies me.

The stupid thing is, that I never believed in such things before.

I find it hard to accept this thought because it has it's backdoor (just like every other obsession). When I think "Okay then, everything is predefined" the thought is followed by "I just accept this thought because it's predefined for me to accept it". It's like a paradoxon or loop in my head. I know it sounds completely ridiculous, but it freaks me out. I even remember thinking about the same topic as a child. Back then I found it funny and interesting and went on with my life.

Anxiety is a *****

[Clydesdale Epona]

I've had this thought a couple of times actually,
usually when i'm ready to unwind at night and go to sleep is when my thoughts are ready to take over with the thoughts about why we get thoughts.
it's almost like being irrational about well being irrational, it's a weird never ending loop and it really sucks so i get where you're coming from x

[Dave1]

Hi,

If everything is predefined then there's no point in worrying about anything because it won't change anything. So just enjoy the ride.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The solipsism rabbit hole!

I think we all have these thoughts in life but it's more of a problem for some, due to the obsessive nature of their anxiety, so they are perhaps more open to it becoming a problem like many OCD themes.

I often think with rabbit hole themes like this, things that no human being will ever know the answer too, the way out is to learn not to care. Live in the moment more. Ground yourself more. Practice acceptance.

[GeraltRiva]

Thanks for your answers guys, I really appreciate that there are people who give advice. I'm not sure if I would stand this alone.

[phil06]

Yes this is exactly how I feel in the first post. Where do the thoughts come from
And if it’s really me. Did you manage to get over these thoughts?

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

The solipsism rabbit hole!

I think we all have these thoughts in life but it's more of a problem for some, due to the obsessive nature of their anxiety, so they are perhaps more open to it becoming a problem like many OCD themes.

I often think with rabbit hole themes like this, things that no human being will ever know the answer too, the way out is to learn not to care. Live in the moment more. Ground yourself more. Practice acceptance.

So do you think the solipsism thing comes under the same bracket as free will?

[MyNameIsTerry]

So do you think the solipsism thing comes under the same bracket as free will?

Something I have learned by going through OCD, and intrusive thought themes, is that you have to be very careful trying to attach it to a part of you. Just because you have violent images doesn't mean you have a secret axe murderer lurking inside just as intrusive sexual images of children don't make someone a child abuser in denial. If it did crime statistics and the understanding of OCD as a medical condition would be greatly different. So would how we are treated.

But OCD will attempt to imply that and those that go through such themes will have very similar periods of thoughts patterns, something I can so only through my own observations of a fair few such people.

Whilst this isn't an answer to what you asked me it is important because I'm talking about where thoughts come from and why in some themes trying to see them as part of a "real you" underneath is actually counterproductive to recovery. I've found there are various methods you can employ to recover from these themes and counter evidence only takes you so far because learning not to care about the thoughts will starve them of their feedback and mothball the fears.

I've noticed with solipsism in OCD that people find this works well because there is no proof either way. Just as the person who experiences violent intrusive thoughts can never say for sure they won't do x, it's within human nature after all, it becomes about learning to live with the unknown. Acceptance is important.

So, can you accept solipsism as a standpoint? Why not. I don't believe in it, I've never had a problem with it because I don't give it any credence.

Another thing I have learned from my parents. You will see if repeated across NMP. Does it matter? When you are in your seventies and life is in it's twilight will you look back and regret caring about something that has never mattered or had any impact on your life? My dad had this chat with me about my lack of work/life balance. As an older man he has done it and knows the mistakes I could make as I age. I quit fighting a shit employer over cultural changes they wouldn't implement, even when their occupational health team told them too, and decided my health was more important than a shitty employer who didn't care about anything but money.

Since all that I've been through the comparison stuff with anxiety. Looking at the happy couples and getting upset. I learned to stop bothering with it and the result is it doesn't get to me anymore. Some people have great lives, some don't. Some never achieve anything. Maybe I will be the latter but is it so bad if I can say how much more I have enjoyed over those who truly suffer worse?

I don't subscribe to any philosophy or religion. I believe in the teachings of my parents. We can all learn and improve, of course. Someone might want to evaluate my life and tell me what label I fall under but I don't care, I'm me.

I've been through a load of the searching questions too but they just open more questions that are never answered. My analytical mind would look at what anyone says and question their authority on it anyway as it's all an unknown. This takes me back to being a good person and not caring about the label. Besides there are many out there who see mental health sufferers as their target market as they are vulnerable and you have to be careful subscribing to things anyway.

Am I happy with myself? Yes & no. Having a mental health disorder that dogs my life means I have plenty of unhappiness but much of the "why" stuff was dealt with as it's less important compared to getting better. It will just keep you going around in circles over stuff that is done and can't be changed.

If I don't have free will, so what? If I have it, so what? Either way it's not going to change any element of my life anyway. If someone else wants to claim the credit for it all at the end, that's on them, I don't care.

[phil06]

Yes I often hear people say who cares if I have free will?

I wish I felt this way but I’m afraid I don’t. We have the appearance of free will so if we don’t life would infact all be a lie. Nobody likes being told something then finding out it’s not true.

Also I would ask if there was no free will why would somebody programme by brain to worry about it? I can see why it may come under solipsism as I haven’t ruled out me being controlled plus nobody else existing? That would be pretty awful but I guess this is something anxiety/ocd can also make it and it tends to be the most awful scenarios.

Since I had a breakdown I have been very worried about all philosophies, going mad and being very aware of my thoughts. There seems to be something in why things happen for a reason as we have karma and stuff like that?

However my issue is my brain doesn’t feel my own anymore. I have learned over the years no matter what the issue even stuff like health anxiety you can convince yourself it’s true. I had this free will thought so my anxiety says I it must be true it feels true I go on this long journey analalysing it. Yes there may be no clear cut answer but obviously I just feel compelled to think about it.

I will describe it as like when you have anxiety and worry about your breathing you become ultra aware that you are breathing and even freaked out that you are breathing and being alive. However this time it’s my mind I have become ultra obsessed with my thoughts I’m very aware of them. I googled it and somebody who worried about free will said if we don’t we are like a river just flowing sounds pretty awful? But anyway it’s an anxiety condition at work here and obviously these thinking patterns are the same as my breathing. But also I ask if I never had free will why would I spend all the time worrying about it and why do only some worry? I’m sure if I preprogrammed myself I would not work I would stay in a large house ect. I also worked out if god did control thoughts we would all be talking to ourselves so it’s a bit like solipsism theme if you agree?

[Prospector]

It's all philosophical nonsense and overthinking.
1) It doesn't matter. We have the ability to 'make choices' that we are aware of. The mechanisms behind how we make those choices do not matter, and do not enslave us in the way you are describing. We are conscious human beings with the ability to make what we call choices. If I want to understand the 'deeper meaning' behind these things, I'll look up the cognitive neuroscience behind it (even if we understand very little about the brain :P ). We are not unaware robots, we are aware human beings and our choice making exists within this awareness. We do not have 'absolute free-will' either. We are biological beings that behave in the way that our brains allow us to behave. Feeling happy, sad, evil and even making conscious choices are all things that stem from mechanisms in the brain. It doesn't stop us from being aware though. So the point stands, if you're aware, why does it matter?

2) Consciousness is a property of physical matter. It exists within your own brain, and only inside the workings of your own brain, hence the subjectivity. The ability to 'feel' and 'experience' as a whole exists as some form of interaction between physical matter also. How everything is all intermingled (the structure of 'awareness' and how our conscious brains link to another conscious brain is another question entirely. The physical world is extraordinarily complex, even in classical physics, but learning more about the world through scientific study will help give us answers. The idea that 'my mind is the only mind' is a load of nonsense though. Your brain/mind is connected to other brains in some form, though those connections are very weak. If you were to strengthen those connections (i.e connect your brain to their brain somehow) then you would most likely be able to experience another biological beings experiences. Hence both dualism and solipsism are both philosophies that are rejected by most scientists, and will likely be proved wrong with absolute certainty at some point in the future as technology and science improves. There's no such thing as the mind essentially; not in the immaterial sense. The mind and brain are one!
3) Where does it all come from. Well that's yet another extremely large scientific question. The answer to that would lie in the origins of matter, and thus the origins of the universe itself. There are many theories about this already though. String theory, I believe offers potential answers.

Thinking about your consciousness or the existence/ the universe is not going to give you any answers to the questions posed. We have to form scientific theories and test them using evidence. I'd urge you not to rely on thoughts alone to solve these problems as that risks making you anxious. These are solvable problems, but only through empirical means, not thinking/philosophical means! A long time ago I had many of these fears, but the understanding that I've tried to show you is the understanding that has helped me

[phil06]

I have stepped in this wheel again today I worry about free will and who controls my mind. It had gone away for a bit but the feelings are never far away I worry I am on a journey in life with no control Over my actions it’s all pre planned? Decided by someone else?