Hello. Some of you might remember me. I've still got fear of solipsism...five years now. I got a little better for awhile but it was still there. Just feeling like after so long I don't have much hope of living without it. I know better than to try to disprove it. I cannot. But I want to stop thinking about, or feel confident its false again.
So...anyone think I can still pull out? Have you ever had such a convincing obsession you got past?
hey there! fellow solipsism obsessor here. mine is a very on and off thing for 4 years. currently going through the worst relapse ever.
i was actually looking at some of your posts a couple months ago and was very surprised to see you make a new post here (i decided to finally join today)
as for solipsism... look at how real the world is. and if you experience the unreality feeling, a temporary but mind opening solution is to focus on a sense, any sense. next time you eat, think about the taste, texture, smell... all that. what else could you possibly be in except for reality when you realise how real it feels?
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Last edited by eggs; 08-07-17 at 12:07.
Hey Otulissa,
Thanks for sharing your experience and fears here. I went through what you're going through for 3 long years, and I was there too. It didn't feel like it was ever going to leave. Just an endless relentless pure nightmare, right? The good news is that it does get better, and will for you. There isn't one "quick fix" that I know of, no surefire way to break free in an instance or anything like that, at least from my experience. And probably no single forum post or philosophical answer that's going to relieve your mind of the constant thoughts that have consumed you--and that's exactly what the problem is- thoughts. Your thoughts right now, like mine were at the time I suffered this, are on an overload, a constant battle with itself. Really, it could have been over anything, but it chose this quirky and perplexing philosophy called solipsism to fixate on and waste all of your precious time with. Your OCD/DP/depression/anxiety/whatever it is that you deal with, is to blame, not some philosophy of radical skepticism penned by some ancient philosopher. It's just an idea. But what your mind has found with it (and what countless other minds have found with it) is an escape. Consider this: Somewhere deep down, as preposterous as this might be to admit, your subconscious right now in your life, for some reason, actually wants or maybe even needs to feel like this theory is true. Or at the very least, your imagination has a strong unrelenting desire to explore the realms of that possibility and what it would mean for the nature of your existence if the theory were true. So, one idea is, and of course, not suggesting you try exposure if it makes you uncomfortable, but if you can bear the thought for a minute... You've already gone 5 years you say, living with this obsession of "what if it's true?", so try just testing the theory and really "feeling out" experiencing what it feels like if it were true without any moral judgement or guilt Don't worry, you'll of course be able to return to your rational state of mind where you are "unsure" and go back to your constant obsession--as its always there for you when you need it. In doing so and kind of imagining the scenario that it's true, you'll of course notice that there will be no consequences and nothing in your reality will change, except for maybe that utter sense of despair and pure dread that you feel deep in your gut when those spikes or ruminations occur. I know each and every one of those, I went deep into the rabbit hole myself. Just consider that feeling for a moment if you can, I know it's painful to go there. Most importantly, ask yourself this when you consider those emotions... "Is this (solipsism) really the true nature of things and therefore is the fear and feelings I experience when I think about the theory a natural feeling that I should feel knowing the true nature if in fact this is the true nature? Does this feel "right"? Does it feel pure, does it make sense, does it ground me, does it satisfy me, does it serve its purpose to make my life meaningful and content? Of course, you'll hear a resounding "no"-- an emotional "no", a small but real "no" that although is small and stifled by the reverberating and distorted echo chamber through the halls of what you tell yourself is logic/reason/order/truth/etc in your bizarre new construct, that "no" is still more real than any philosophical argument that can be made. More real than ethics, more real than physics, more real than math, and more real than truth itself. Because without this voice that's saying "no", you are nothing but flesh and a brain. That voice saying
"no" is your emotional, human self. It's what makes you human, just like all of us. It's the thing that believes, that trusts, and that relies on common sense, good will and humanity. You see, no one will ever be able to use logic to approach places and fill the voids of unanswerable mysteries of the Universe. We can only use emotions, faith, trust, and most importantly for you--deduction. Because while you cannot prove that other minds exist, you can deduce from your senses, that they appear to. Now, in order to get out of this "vat" you've stumbled into, you need to realize that somewhere along the way, you've probably without even realizing it, ended up convincing yourself that "by default" it's more reasonable to assume that other minds don't exist. And at this point, you're trying to actually disprove what part of your subconscious mind is already assuming is the nature of reality (only because you've kept repeating the damn thing over and over). So you'll want to re-wire yourself back to assuming that, well, everything is what it seems. And to do this, it will help to trust yourself, trust that you can make a logical deduction-- while maybe not 100% solid proof logical according to occam's razor blah blah, doesn't matter, because when were you ever a cold hard scientist anyway, right? This is life we're talking about, not a graduate exam or science lab. STOP USING LOGIC WITH EVERYTHING. Just trust your senses, they're here for a reason.
Now, you might be surprised what could be waiting for you once you've kind of jumped out of that vat so to speak... if you're like me, it was almost pure nihilism, meaninglessness, nothingness, feeling so insignificant, and I'll say with a smile-- those feelings/thoughts was 1000x better than the solipsism and I gradually phased out of it and life was purposeful again. It actually makes perfect sense (that transition from solipsism into nihilism), because both are essentially opposites of another. As for solipsism, once you've shed this time-wasting, OCD-loving "theory", you'll realize that what's behind it is perhaps a subconscious need to feel special and unique, to feel safe, to feel untouched and unhurt by other "real" people around you, maybe to escape something in your life. Even though you probably think you utterly hate and want to reject this solipsism thing and what its "imaginary" consequences would mean, there's maybe a part of you that's captivated by it, or at the very least needs to explore this cosmic possibility out of pure boredom, curiosity, unsatisfactory of everyday life. From my experience, you will not likely "escape" this thing by pondering it or by arguing away with it or even by trying to reject it. You will "escape" it by taking action, recognizing your feelings, and trying to better yourself. You need others in your life. You need fulfillment, fun, interests, and most importantly, love. Without love, we are alone, maybe not literally but figuratively.
You need to replace this relentless mental exercise that causes anguish with other pursuits and interests that cause growth and satisfaction. You need to immerse yourself. Walk into the fire. Become human again. You need to become VULNERABLE. Realize you are mortal and fragile and sensitive and that you need other people in your life and that you need to trust yourself and the ones around you. Trust life. It will be a journey but a marvelous one, because you will look back and be able to tell others how you escaped this prison that you created, and kind of laugh back at it and say "man, I could have been at least doing lsd and taking shrooms, travelling the world, etc etc and experience this stuff as a wild hallucination but instead I actually went head first into an absurd loglcal construct that I convinced myself of for 5 years and sulked in my bedroom about lolol"... You will be able to look back at this time, and of course not regret it, because it will have actually shaped your journey. I don't regret a single moment of the anguish and despair that I went through for 3 years with this, because it actually helped me build a strong foundation of faith, spirituality and self love. I'm not a religious nut or guru or anything, far from it. Just that my journey led me to feel very content with my developed world views. I actually borrowed a more subtle take on the theory-but just a sprinkle (like subjective reality and the idea of a collective unconscious) and added doses of other things that I actually believe and its become my view of the world around me. You see, you may be in a transition period of your worldviews, faith, spirituality, philosophical pursuit, meaning of life, what have you. And it's a scary transition, but this may just the process your mind has to go through (even though its a long 5 years of mental torment) in order to put some new ideas together. Eventually, something will hit and you'll realize solipsism (nor any existential philosophy) isn't meant to be taken literally, but rather a metaphor for describing something or someone totally self-absorbed and utterly narcissistic and why would you want to uphold or concern yourself with a theory/trait like that?
Sorry for the unformatted rant-style response, but it helps me to just go stream of conscious with these kinds of things. Also, please let me know if you ever need any support or to chat regarding this matter, as I could go off at lengths as you can see here haha.. I know how distressing this obsession can be. After defeating this thing myself, I've made it a priority to try and reach out other people who are stuck there and offering a helping hand if they need one.
Best wishes, and keep us posted on your journey.
Last edited by Chasingmyowntail; 08-07-17 at 23:51.
Yes, you're right in that no one thing stops it. And while I know the arguements against are logical they don't stop it. I'm kind of just accepting I can't out logic this problem.
Though I always get nervous when people talk about reading about solipsism and getting the obsession. The idea popped in my head one day, and later I learned about the philosophy term. I've seen plenty of people that said they accepted it was possible, and only then they got better. So...I've been trying to stop the compulsive convincing myself it isn't true, just leave it alone. I'm terrified it might last forever and I know that's not helping me get over it though.
There you go, well said re: you can't outlogoc it and obsessively trying to convince yourself it isnt true. If you were confident enough that its truly just rubbish and waste of mental energy, you wouldnt need to keep repeating to yourself that its not true.Originally Posted by Otulissa
Imagine someone that had a thought one day that an actual real life demon is hiding in the grocery store down the street, and for five years straight, the person locked their doors, closed their shades and repeatedly said in their head "There is NOT a demon at the grocery store right now" over and over and over and over and oooover. (them of course youd be obsessed with demons and might think there is one there) That's pretty much what you've been doing for 5 years, except replace "demon in grocery store" for some weird philosophical theory called "solipsism"!
Here's what really kinda sealed it for me-- basically you have no reason to believe the theory is true and that other minds arent real... ya know? Just like no reason to beliebe in the grocery store demon.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Even deciding to view it that way doesnt stop the doubt or anxiety. Did that just take time to die down with you? All the bad feelings? Like you said I need to stop chasing the need to feel a certain way... but I want to at least hope this wont be a bother forever.
Ugh, yeah I hear you. I'm not gonna lie. It wasn't easy. It was without a doubt the most difficult time in my life and the hardest thing to slip out of. It took changing my life entirely and just totally re-focusing my entire purpose in life. I thought my case was hopeless and that I was going to lose my mind. My mom even thought I was kind of losing it and was very concerned. My ocd made it so bad that I couldnt even bare the thought of seeing a therapist or take meds for it cuz that would "be a symbol that it won" or whatever.
And I know what you mean with the anxiety and point of feeling doubt etc. it kinda goes through phases right? At one point, you just have a hard time thinking you may ever feel youll "believe in reality again"... almost realizing wow ive trapped myself too far in that im just stuck here in limbo forever. I remember that. Very well. It's depressing, sad, lonely, terrifying, and often numb. It's okay. It's okay to feel this way.
Whatever it is that's causing you all of this, there's a reason. Something in your life that you're running from or preventing yourself from doing/being/feeling. Ask yourself what that is.
You're clearly a passionate deep creative thinker (like most of us that suffer this), but youre putting all of your creative energy into a bankrupt philosophy and its dragging you down. Your OCD / anxiety is having a heyday with it because its an endless subject. If you can manage to replace the theory with something else to think/obsess/ponder/fill your mind with, you can transition. Running to help family w sonething right now... more later... post to be continued...
Is it like what the second post on this says?
http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/inde...ile#entry20989
Ive been trying to follow that advice....
I think that's a great post, and while you may not need to follow the advice to a tee, there are some good tips such as forcing other things to occupy your mind / time, and putting aside the whole thought that not being concerned with the theory means your somehow being ignorant or "fake" as the op says.
But yeah, in general, these are valid points. Just don't go taking ppl at face value or being black or white about it all. What works for some people may not work for others and vice versa, were all programmed, triggered, etc differently in many ways. But yes, it would be worth trying out that advice. Remember that being black or white, yes or no, 0 or 1, on or off, about things is prob what got you into this crisis in the first place. Life is not black or white or on or off, its shades and multicolors. Where I found myself in the last days of my crisis in terms of mentally percieving the theory, was if i remember correctly, somewhere between embracing the unknown (essentially realizing ill never know if its true or not and just kind of realizing that i just dont have any reason to belueve the theory is true. Which to me kind of just translated to "sure i cant be suuuuper sure, but ehh its most likely not true just cuz its probably not amd lets leave it at that. I sort of paid it less importance, dumbed it down and turned inward about my own personal life and pursuits rather than about the nature of reality and turned outwards to important ppl in my life and meeting new ppl instead of looking for answers etc.
Trust me that taking action can work wonders. Just action. Any action. Learn an instrument or new language. Go on an adventure. Do gardening. Do something crazy and daring with friends, prank calls etc, find new music, etc. You may one day look back and miss these forums lol but you may also find yourself helping people who went through what you did.
Life: so many possibilities and potential to experience and such little time. Life is precious, get out there and shake things up! Push yourself out of your comfort zone. Stop taking the fabrics of reality so seriously and pretentiously and get silly. No seriously. Ocd/theories/this forum aside, we all need morr sillyness in our liiiiiivessssss. Take a cold shower. Buy a pet. Create an fb event for a public pillow fight in your house and invite a bunch of random ppl. Put together a scavenger hunt. Switch careers / goals randomly. Help the homeless. So many things you can do. Get creative, be playful and take your life back.
honestly i have no idea how to see the idea as irrational. sometimes i think to myself "isn't it easier that i just made all this up" rather than there be a physical reality
anyone else?
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