12000 PVCs every day... What should I do?

[srinux27]

Hi everyone - I have been having a miserable couple of months. I started feeling this weird flutter in my chest around May this year and ignored it initially. But the weird sensation just wouldn't go away - so had an ECG done which came back with PVC. I didn't know what it was at the time so naturally freaked and ran to the ER. They hooked me up to another ECG and this time came back with Ventricular Bigeminy. They did an echo and all was good - discharged but asked to consult a cardiologist the next day. The following day a stress test was done - all normal except PVC before and after the test - but diminished during. So accepted the cardiologist diagnosis as benign and ignored them till July/August. After this they really got bad - met the same cardiologist and had a 24hr - Holter done that came back with 12000 isolated monomorphic PVC's. I was worried - but the cardiologist again confirmed that these were benign. He just asked me to take Propanalol as required. Since then - have had a couple of other echos and ECG's and all came back with the same thing.

My question to fellow sufferers is -

1. Does the frequency matter? I consider 12000 very high - that is almost 10 per minute.

2. Every time I go to the clinic and they measure pulse and BP the machine always beeps a warning about irregular heartbeat and BP is high due to white coat - they always look at me like I am going to die. It is embarrassing and makes it more difficult for me to go see the doctor. Does anyone else cope with this?

3. Is a 2D echo good enough to diagnose benign PVC's. I have had a 24hr Holter, ECG and 2D Echo done multiple time. But Stress test was done only once. All normal - but still worried that these may not be entirely benign.

4. I have no normal heart beat at all now. It is like he PVC's have become the normal heart rhythm now. Anyone else have this high frequency of palps? How do you cope?

[Aaahhfreakout]

I am not a doctor but I have read a lot of about this subject.

The good news is that the PVCs are both isolated and monomorphic. Even very high numbers of isolated monomorphic PVCs are considered benign.

Another good thing about the PVCs being monomorphic is that suggests they are all coming from the same point on the heart. This means that the doctors can decide to try and reduce or stop them by an ablation if they feel they are becoming too much. I believe it's around 20,000 PVCs per day which is considered "too much" generally.

This cardiologist is a good resource of useful and reassuring information:

https://www.youtube.com/user/YorkCardiology/videos

This video in particular is relevant to you, The man with 20000 PVCs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1QOrna4k0

The man had sleep apnea and improving that helped.

Have you tried reducing stress, improving diet, improving sleep, etc.? Some people claim to have had success with magnesium supplements. Others are fairly sure that irritation of the vagus nerve in the throat is causing their ectopic beats or provoking them, so are trying to heal their GERD to help.

[Hypomean]

I have a flutter too.

It’s this weird flutter. And last night I was able to see that it is my heart and not muscle related. And it gave me a massive panic attack.
It’s been almost five years since I went to the cardiologist, back then for other things but this is new. The doctors where annoyed by me for going constantly about my symptoms for my heart. Saying I had a work up that I was healthy.
Will you are being looked after. And it’s great. Have you asked what you can do to help your PVCs out?

[srinux27]

Have you tried reducing stress, improving diet, improving sleep, etc.? Some people claim to have had success with magnesium supplements. Others are fairly sure that irritation of the vagus nerve in the throat is causing their ectopic beats or provoking them, so are trying to heal their GERD to help.

Aaahhfreakout - Thanks for taking the time out to reply. I am really trying to do everything in my power to reduce stress and anxiety related to these palps - but its so hard when you have so many . Other than that - always slept properly for the requisite amount of time (6 - 8 hrs) and eat healthy at home (maybe go out for dinners 5 - 6 time a month). I have never suffered or at least dont think I suffer from GERD. Dont have any gastric issues at the moment. I think I may have exercised a bit vigorously a few time - but have since stopped that as well and they are not helping.

Hope they go away - I believe I can ignore them provided I know 100% that they are benign. I always have this nagging doubt that sudden onset - high frequency PVC which are not at all characteristic for me - that may be something more sinister is behind them. Just cannot let this go!! AAAH!!!

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

Have you asked what you can do to help your PVCs out?

I have run around everywhere and tried everything for the elusive cure for PVC's. My doctors advised me to read Deepak Chopra and try cooling meditation. I have tried the meditation and it seems to calm me down definitely. I have tried walnuts and magnesium and they seemed to help for a while (probably a placebo effect). Tried moderate exercise and this helped on and off.

I have severe health anxiety now due to this and trying to focus on reducing the anxiety first. Not really focus on the palps - but reduce anxiety and I believe I am winning here. But the constant hammering in the chest doesn't let you really forget and nor is it making it easy.

[Aaahhfreakout]

Something I discovered from playing around with my own little ECG machine is that it's possible to be anxious with your heart rate increased but below the level you can feel the anxiety physically. I thought I was calm but I wasn't.

So I have found there are three levels:

1. Calmness
2. False calmness with hidden anxiety causing physical effects you don't feel
3. Anxiety you can feel physically

I have a suspicion that a lot of us are at 2 and we think we're calm when we're not, and the constant stress is irritating our hearts in the same way as it can irritate our stomachs as IBS.

If we drank tiny amounts of caffeine all day, you can imagine the result. Well I guess we're doing the same with adrenaline.

Somehow, I think we need to become calmer. Which of course is hard with a skipping heart.

I am not sure if this will be of any help to you but maybe the constant small stresses of each skip is irritating the heart to create the next skip even if you feel you managing to remain calm. I think it was the cardiologist I linked to who said it can take weeks for the irritation to go away once the cause is removed.

[srinux27]

2. False calmness with hidden anxiety causing physical effects you don't feel

I always doubted this but I think you have this spot on. I think I have many a time have caught myself holding my breath subconsciously (somewhere developed this notion that breathing in deeply causes palpitations so holding breath should relieve the sensation). Other times - I feel like I have been holding my stomach in tight and consciously relieving this feels very relaxing. i do not have any of the regular physical symptoms of anxiety like rapid heart rate, tremors, faint head etc.

This subconscious anxiety thing is proving much harder to manage than I thought!! How do you get back to normal

[Aaahhfreakout]

Yup, breath holding and stomach tensing are real problems for myself too. A way I found to test this is to stand and then bend far forward to lean on something like a table to take your weight, then consciously relax your abdomen and, in my case at least, I can't believe how much I can relax my stomach muscles and therefore how tense "normal" is for me.

Also, to add more about "false calmness" it was when I was using the little portable ECG I was sure I'd reacted to something with complete calm but when I saw the ECG it showed my heart rate was 10 to 15 beat-per-minute higher. I'd become somewhat anxious and didn't feel it at all. That made me realize that there's an area between calmness and anxiety that is falsely calm and perhaps we could even spend all day thinking we're calm when we're not.

[Brunette]

I have to say this is one of the best posts I've read on this forum as it's so true!

Sometimes there's a lot of stuff going on and I'm actually thinking "Why am I not more stressed?" But of course I am, at a subconscious level, (what you call "false calmness") which is why I'm waking up at 3am, getting easily irritated or having lots of tension and pain in my neck and shoulders.

At times like this, if I ignore whats going on, palps and minor panic attacks tend to come along (as both did this morning) to remind me to try to shift down a gear and look after myself.

Luckily, at times like this I already know from experience that the answer is to calm down generally rather than stressing about the symptoms so that's what I'll be endeavoring to do!

[WiredIncorrectly]

I came here to ask the exact same thing! I've had a tough few months with them but they've gradually increased.

Yesterday I had at least 1 every minute all day. But, a lot of the times I was having 4 or 5 a minute. Right now I'm having about 2 per minute and its very uncomfortable. I don't know what triggers them but I've noticed sitting, and food, to be problems.

I also notice that exercise causes them to disappear. I've made a few posts on this if you check my post history. Standing I get very few, sitting I get lots!

When I'm having a hard time with palps I will usually jump rope around 2000 times. It provides relief but as soon as I relax from the exercise they come back. I sprained my foot the other day and can't walk at the moment so I can't even jump rope to get some relief.

I sympathise with your 12000. That's about 1 every 8 seconds :(

It sucks.

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------

Sometimes there's a lot of stuff going on and I'm actually thinking "Why am I not more stressed?" But of course I am, at a subconscious level, (what you call "false calmness") which is why I'm waking up at 3am, getting easily irritated or having lots of tension and pain in my neck and shoulders.

Omg! I was literally thinking this recently "Am I subconsciously stressed out?". I'm the same as you I'm easily irritated and I'm angry a lot for no reason.

I've started to believe that maybe I'm so used to being stressed I don't even realise I'm stressed.

But wow, I've just read this whole thread. I can so relate to this!

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------

I always doubted this but I think you have this spot on. I think I have many a time have caught myself holding my breath subconsciously (somewhere developed this notion that breathing in deeply causes palpitations so holding breath should relieve the sensation). Other times - I feel like I have been holding my stomach in tight and consciously relieving this feels very relaxing. i do not have any of the regular physical symptoms of anxiety like rapid heart rate, tremors, faint head etc.

This subconscious anxiety thing is proving much harder to manage than I thought!! How do you get back to normal

I do this too! I'm literally replying with so much excitement right now because there's people on this thread who know exactly what I experience on a daily basis and vice versa. I think there's a correlation here.

[Aaahhfreakout]

I was thinking today that maybe we need to try to note down everything we're doing which could have negative effects.

Make a list and work on it.

I think I need a reminder about once a minute to stop doing something unnecessary with my breathing or muscle tensing.