Mirt Diary

[anxiousjomo]

Day 1 of 3.75mg (ish - it is not easy to cut these pills into quarters!)

So took 3.7mg last night, along with 1mg of Melatonin and slept like a log - to the extent that my wife tried to say something to me about 30min after switching off the lights, and I did not respond and did not wake up...

Slept right through until 7am when my son woke me up to get him ready for school.

Bit tired, groggy and dizzy today, but grateful for the sleep. No real anxiety or depression issues as yet and, apart from a slight headache and some trembling/slight jitteriness, no other issues. Will see how the day goes.

This drug, and my response to it, continues to be very weird. Why - if I have insomnia on it at 30mg, 15mg and 7.5mg, would I suddenly sleep through on 3.75mg? If I had a tolerance to the histamine side of things, or an a-typical response to it, surely this would not happen. Or maybe it is because I was so exhausted, and now there was less impact on the histamine receptors, so my body could sleep by itself (with a little help from the melatonin). Weird.

As for my regimen during this process, in case this is useful to anyone, it is as follows:

1. High strength omega 3-6-9 fish oil pills in the morning
2. Iron +B vits+ Vit C+ Zinc effervescent drink in the morning (Feroglobin)
3. 400mg Magnesium Citrate before bed
4. Occasional (usually a few times a week, and always with at least 1 day off in between) 1mg Melatonin 30min before bed.
5. Very rare (maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks - but if needed then more) - 1mg Lorezepam and 3.75mg Zopiclone. These are for real emergencies only and, unless things are desperate, I try and go as long as possible without one.
6. Green tea every morning, and one coffee before lunch. No caffeine after 1pm.
7. Try to eat as healthy as possible - cut down on sugar and all the rest. Lots of Kale and nuts lol.
8.I go to the gym 3-4 times a week, and get at least 30min exercise every day (I get off the Tube 2 stops early in the morning, and walk the last 20-30min, for example).
9. Headspace app meditation for 15-20min every morning (though I often have to do this on the commute, so it is not ideal!)
10. Lots of hugs from my wife and 7 year old.

I try to focus on each day as its own entity, and try to make sure there is something positive each day - even if it is just reading a bedtime story with my son, or going to the gym and getting exercise so I am healthier and (hopefully) will be around for longer for him.

I try to keep busy (easy when you have a hectic job and a small child!) and am trying to get better at not wasting hours worrying about how I am feeling, and about medication and anxiety and all the rest. This last is the hardest, and I think will take the longest to deal with. But CBT and ACT etc will hopefully help with that.

Am planning to stay on this dose for 10-14 days and then, if there have been no issues, go down in smaller pieces for a few days and then stop. So hopefully by Xmas should be med free.

[anxiousjomo]

Day 2 of 3.75mg

Well, scrap everything I was rambling about yesterday. Last night was back to the insomnia as per usual - maybe 3hrs sleep in total. Feeling pretty rubbish today. For some stupid reason tried taking melatonin at about 1am, but that did nothing. I know you need to take it when you first go to bed or not at all, so no idea why I did that.
Had some anxiety in the night and this morning. Unpleasant but not bad enough to need any benzos or anything. Got some Diazapam in my work bag with me in the office, more as a security blanket than anything else.

Will try taking melatonin and the med together tonight and, if that does not work, either a zopiclone or a lorazepam.

It is hard to know how much of the insomnia is me (I was struggling with it before going on the meds - it was the main reason I tried Mirt!) and how much my response to the med/withdrawal from the med. I guess the only way I will know is by coming off it. But as I have had insomnia the entire time I have been on it (save for about a month at the start when I slept "normally" - i.e. about 6hrs a night).

But it really is the insomnia that kills me - I can cope with the depression and the anxiety when I get sleep, but as soon as I go for a night or two with no sleep, everything just gets infinitely more difficult.

Oh well. Just have to keep working today, and make it to the evening.

[Yvonne]

Hi Jomo

I did say I wasn't going to come on the forum again but since coming off the Mirtazepine just had to check in to see how you're doing and in an effort to see how others have coped with coming off it.

I came off it quickly as you know.. within a month. 45 to 37 in a week, then following week 15mg for two weeks. Took my last dosage two weeks ago. It was hard during the four week period when I was tapering down, high anxiety and worse depression. It was to be expected of course. I am not sleeping at all well at night and keep waking .. sometimes hourly. I am taking clonazepam when I go to bed at night to help me sleep. In general feel very weak and lethargic and very sleepy most of the time and it isn't nice. I did speak to gp last week and he offered to put me back on 15mg but I said I would rather weather the storm as it were. He said I will probably feel like this for three weeks.. eek! I feel so tired but can't sleep when I go to bed.. makes no sense does it.

I'm glad I came off it but as I say it isn't easy. I know I came off it very quickly but that was psychiatrist's advice.

Very interested in all the supplements you're using and going to the gym and walking and meditating is all good stuff. You are very motivated which is fantastic. I am meditating and walking the dog early in the morning.

You seem to be doing well JoMo.. keep up the good work and the positive attitude. You will get there.

[anxiousjomo]

Day 4 of 3.75mg

Yvonne - great to hear from you. Sorry you are having a rough time, but glad to see you are keeping such a positive attitude! It is so weird not being able to sleep when you are that tired - such an odd, counter-productive behaviour of our bodies and brains! Hopefully things will improve for you over the next few weeks. Good to hear you are walking the dog - exercise really is key, I think. Glad that both of us will be able to start the new year hopefully in a better, less medicated, space.

I had a rubbish night last night - not much sleep, and feeling a little anxious and tired today. Just trying to remember "this too shall pass" and not fixate on it. But I guess this is now the time when my blood plasma level has got to the lower dose, so it is to be expected that this would be a rough couple of days.

As for the supplements - the only really noticeable thing is the magnesium - if I don't take it I get restless legs, and sleep worse. I have experimented and there is a clear correlation.

Melatonin really does help with the sleep - on the nights I take it I sleep much better, but I dont want to get reliant on it/build up a tolerance so try not to do it too much. I would suggest trying it - you cant get it over here except on prescription if you are over 55. Otherwise you can order from overseas, or get friends to bring it over for you. Lower dose is better - 1mg or so. But I really do find it works, and there are not really any issues using it, as your brain makes it anyway. However, I do find it interesting that melatonin is made from seratonin by our brains, which means if your seratonin is low (which it may well be for many of us with depression/anxiety) it makes sense that you may also be low on melatonin.

I also think the omega 3 helps - but you have to spend more to get ones with a decent quality (Minami Nutrition are the ones I use - I did some research and these have been independently verified to be of good quality).

I am looking forward to being off in the next couple of weeks and starting 2019 med free.

Best of luck to you, and to anyone reading this.

[anxiousjomo]

Day 5 of 3.75mg

Slept ok - took 1mg melatonin before bed. Woke a few times, particularly at about 5am, with some anxiety, but managed to control it with deep breathing etc and go back to sleep. Mood ok. A bit jittery today, but it is Monday and I am at work, so that is to be expected! Upset stomach this morning, but that is pretty usual for me, so think it is not really anything to do with the meds. Still feels like I have a pretty permanent mild headache, and my limbs feel a little weak, but this could just be from tiredness etc.

Trying to keep positive, productive and busy.

[pulisa]

Good for you, jomo. You have a wonderful attitude to what must be a very challenging time for you. Keep going and look after yourself. I'm sure many people will gain inspiration and strength from reading through your thread. Meds aren't for everyone.

[anxiousjomo]

Pulisa - thanks for your kind words. It is harder some days than others to stay positive, but as long as I remember that today does not determine how I feel tomorrow, then on the bad days I just have to get to the evening. If I keep busy, and exercise etc, then getting through one day is not so hard. The fight is to keep away those thoughts that "you are broken forever, every day is going to be a horrible struggle" etc.

It is also much easier for me than many of you on here. My anxiety and depression are nowhere near as severe as they are for many of you, and even on the worst days I can still (just) function and (just) make it through a day at the office etc.

But I am continually amazed at how much exercise helps. I felt pretty rubbish this morning, but just did a high intensity workout class at the gym and feel a million times better now. That and cutting out processed, sugar-filled, unhealthy food, has made the most difference to my mood I think.

[pulisa]

It's such a bonus when you find natural remedies can help you in a way that meds don't and so much better for you in the long run. This must really boost your mood and make you feel that you have some degree of control over your symptoms and condition.

It's no mean feat to continue working throughout the worst of it all. You should give yourself credit for having the courage to go into work despite feeling really vulnerable and fragile.

[Yvonne]

Hi JoMo

Well I think you're doing really well. I may think about getting some melatonin from gp. I used to take Omega 3 regularly and then stopped so I think I should start taking that again. You have done so much to help yourself with this withdrawal and as I said you are doing marvellously. Well done for doing the high impact workout .. this is also great because when you feel a bit sluggish and aren't sleeping well the last thing you want to do is exercise. I must try it !

I see you've been reading Claire Weekes LOL "this too will pass" .. such wise words, so much good advice in her books. She of course suffered herself. The thoughts are little demons and these are what keep us ill in my opinion. Have you read any Eckhardt Tolle? If not, have a look at his books. Or, better still you can get all his wonderful talks on You Tube.. He really knows this illness inside and out and his advice and beliefs are so spot on. He suffered himself many years ago. He talks a lot about living in the moment.. doesn't like the word Mindfullness.

Re: the stomach upset you had, I had some bad stomach upsets when weaning down but they cleared up pretty quickly. I had a lot of muscle aches but they also didn't last too long. It's the sleeping that's the main problem. It will get better I'm sure.

You mentioned that you have cut down on sugar... this is what I intend to do. I am literally addicted to sugar and crave cake and chocolate. I know how bad it is for us in general and I'm going to make a major effort to cut it right down.

Keep up the good work... you will get there

[anxiousjomo]

Thanks so much to both of you, very helpful to hear such kind words.

I am certainly trying to keep the mindset "sod this bloomin' anxiety and depression" and not letting it win. I am not a fan of exercise, nor do I enjoy the gym, so I always have a little fight with myself before I go, but feel so much better afterwards.

Omega 3 is a really good idea - I am not a big believer in vitamin supplements generally, but a good quality fish oil supplement does make a difference. After all, we evolved originally on a coastal diet, and dont get anything like enough fish and seafood anymore.

Magnesium is also a really good idea for sleep and anxiety - but you need a decent sized dose - 3-400mg.

I have had IBS for years, so the stomach thing is quite probably that. Either way, I am just letting it do its thing.

And, yes Weekes is my anchor through all of this. That and meditation every morning.

I will check out Eckhardt Tolle - thanks for the recommendation. My brother was ordained as a zen monk a few years ago, so he always has lots of helpful suggestions for me along those lines.

But re food - the more I think about it/read about it, the more it makes sense. Obviously what we are ingesting makes a huge difference to every aspect of our body, and our mental health is a part of that. Cutting down on sugar (I am not a believer in cutting it out totally - a nice cake can do wonders for brain too!) does make a difference, I think. That and trying to eat more healthily in general - more fruit and veg, less processed carbs, more fish and lean meant etc.

Anyway. Yvonne, I think you are doing amazingly too - that is a seriously fast withdrawal from the meds, and it must be very tough. I would recommend talking to your GP about melatonin - it helps a lot of people to sleep and, as it is just a hormone your body makes anyway, there is not really an issue with side-effects or long term use.

Good luck to you, and I hope you get some sleep soon.

Oh and, diary entry for today -
Day 6 of 3.75mg

All fine - slept relatively ok with no melatonin or anything else - was fast asleep when my alarm went off this morning, so a bit groggy but ok. Mood fine. Some slight dizziness etc, but nothing major.