To get the vaccine or not

[Panicandpeace]

Hey all! If y'all know my back story from my other post, skip to the second paragraph (or keep reading if you want a refresher!) So long story short, if you've read my other posts, you may be familiar with my fear of rabies, but to summarize, I was initially worried about a possible, non-bite exposure from several years ago. After I was assured by my doctor that I'm "most likely" fine, my brain, I think, decided to latch onto other ways I could get rabies. I've always been afraid of bats, even though I've never seen one in real life (that I'm aware of) other than at the zoo. My brain started to have anxiety about simply being outside because, obviously, I thought, I'll get bitten by a bat, whether in the middle of the day or not, and not know it. This has caused me to retrace my steps and walk around looking to make sure there are no downed bats where I've been walking. The other day, when I came inside my toe was hurting and I panicked and thought a bat had bitten me without me knowing, and again, I went outside and retraced my steps looking for bats (at noon), although I'm pretty sure I didn't see anything, there are always a lot of leaves in the yard, and I'm afraid I may have missed a bat by mistaking it for a leaf. Anyway, later that day, a vivid image of a bat lying on the sidewalk in front of my house popped into my head, and basically, as weird as it sounds, I am confused as to what my real memory is. Did I or did I not see a bat? I even have an image of me pushing a bat aside with my foot. So weird. Why can I so clearly see an image of a bat on the sidewalk? Did I get bitten/touch a bat and in some dissociative state ignore it? Rationally, I think if I were bitten by a bat, I would've driven right to the hospital or taken a photo of it, called and told my mom or somebody, etc. But my brain is playing the what if's. Also, my toe is tingling, just that one toe (it's been 5 days), which I know can be a beginning symptom (and yes I know, in a few days, we'll know if this is truly a symptom or not because I'd be dead). This has only heightened my worry.

Anyway, long story long, I'm thinking about getting the pre-exposure vaccine for peace of mind (granted that my toe is, hopefully, tingling because of anxiety). I know this would NOT be an end all, solve all solution, and I do have a psych appointment later this month to address my anxiety. I sincerely want to get to the root of the issue and work on the way my brain thinks and responds to anxiety and intrusive thinking with CBT. However, this vivid bat imagery is throwing me and messing with my memories and sense of reality. I'm inclined to get the PrEP because I'm outside a lot during the day, and obviously I can't keep assuming I'm getting bitten every time I step outside. However, there is also a part of me that wants to go to the ER and get the full on post-exposure series just in case that image in my brain is real. I'm really struggling with making a decision.

[NervUs]

There is absolutely no way you should go to the ER and get RPEP. My lord, that would be succumbing to OCD entirely.

You know you are having intrusive thoughts. DO NOT VALIDATE THEM.

[Panicandpeace]

There is absolutely no way you should go to the ER and get RPEP. My lord, that would be succumbing to OCD entirely.

You know you are having intrusive thoughts. DO NOT VALIDATE THEM.

I agree, however, there is just the "WHAT IF this isn't a false memory? What if that image of a bat on the sidewalk is real, and not the other way around? Why does my toe still hurt, and why is it tingling?" I've gotten tingly limbs and stuff from anxiety before but not in one toe, in the specific area I felt pain/had a mark. It's maddening to not be able to trust which memory is real.

[Fishmanpa]

I agree, however, there is just the "WHAT IF this isn't a false memory? What if that image of a bat on the sidewalk is real, and not the other way around? Why does my toe still hurt, and why is it tingling?" I've gotten tingly limbs and stuff from anxiety before but not in one toe, in the specific area I felt pain/had a mark. It's maddening to not be able to trust which memory is real.

I understand that to you, this may seem real but the reality is, it just isn't

Positive thoughts

[NervUs]

I agree, however, there is just the "WHAT IF this isn't a false memory? What if that image of a bat on the sidewalk is real, and not the other way around? Why does my toe still hurt, and why is it tingling?" I've gotten tingly limbs and stuff from anxiety before but not in one toe, in the specific area I felt pain/had a mark. It's maddening to not be able to trust which memory is real.

For myself, I go by the rule, if I am not sure, it means the outlandish thing did not happen.

People who come into contact with bats KNOW it. You are wavering and unclear. That means you err on the side of no RPEP. You do know it often ends up costing $10K or more out of pocket in the US...and there is a fairly high vaccine injury rate, like 10% having not minor reactions to the vaccine. Does that change your thinking at all?

[Panicandpeace]

For myself, I go by the rule, if I am not sure, it means the outlandish thing did not happen.

People who come into contact with bats KNOW it. You are wavering and unclear. That means you err on the side of no RPEP. You do know it often ends up costing $10K or more out of pocket in the US...and there is a fairly high vaccine injury rate, like 10% having not minor reactions to the vaccine. Does that change your thinking at all?

I guess, that is a good rule to go by. And that is exactly what my rational side thinks... like, "duh, you wouldn't have just walked by a bat, touched it with your foot, and thought, hmmm," and kept going like it was nothing. Certainly, I would have called somebody and told them about it/called animal control/taken a photo/something... I know I keep repeating myself, but I'm just concerned that that image of a bat in my head is real because of the things I've read about people getting bat bites without knowing it. I just feel as though, if I make the wrong decision, it could obviously end up costing me my life. I know that may seem dramatic, but it's honestly how I feel.

As far as the vaccine side effects, I guess I've read that side effects of the modern vaccine are rare, at least the "severe" ones, kind of along the lines of other vaccines. You can technically get things like Guillain-Barre from the flu shot. All vaccines have risks. Certainly it's an important thing to consider, I don't disagree at all. Oh, and long story short, I've hit my out of pocket max for the year, so the shots wouldn't cost me anything, as they are covered.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

I understand that to you, this may seem real but the reality is, it just isn't

Positive thoughts

I just wish I were confident in my recollection. It's very frustrating to not trust your own memory.

[Fishmanpa]

Just wish I were confident in my recollection. It's very frustrating to not trust your own memory.

Again, respectfully, I know your OCD is grabbing you by the ca-hones and I can see the struggle in your words but we're talking about black and white fact here. The image in your head is just not real.

Positive thoughts

[MyNameIsTerry]

In OCD you can have themes that collide with each other. AS seen here you've got the original theme about rabies from a health perspective which is now colliding with false memory OCD, a separate theme. Magical Thinking often appears with other themes, I found.

Question. Person A is terrified of rabies. Person B doesn't have any such concern, maybe doesn't even have anxiety.

Person A is walking down the street and a bat is on the floor. Does person A go near to the bat or away from it? Do they attempt to touch the bat? Do they expose their skin to it?

Person B is walking down the street and a bat is on the floor. Applying the same questions what do they do?

If you want to, remove bat and add in spider. Person A has Arachnophobia. Person B isn't bothered by spiders.

Would person A help that struggling spider out or be repelled by it? Would person B just walk up to the spider and pick it up to help it? Even if person A felt strongly enough about helping the spider how would they feel throughout the experience? Would person A feel the same as person B.

Now think about how that would apply to memory. Would person A remember this event? Would person B remember it? How would they differ in remembering it?

[MyNameIsTerry]

That's good news. Well worth pursuing this therapy route.

You're absolutely right about the vaccine. All it will possibly do is allow you to move past this current cycle of anxiety but it shouldn't be there in the first place so will just find itself another target to start it off again. And then we have those who start to doubt tests & vaccines (look at the HIV threads) where it can range into the remotest possibilities like staff tampering/errors or a sociopath in the manufacturing process tainting things. I've seen exactly those "what ifs" on more than one HIV thread in my time here.

This is why it's useful to try to remove the emotion by observing thoughts just as thoughts that have the right to exist. In Mindfulness it teaches you to act as the curious observer that let's thoughts just be and doesn't necessarily get involved in them.

Try to see these subconscious "what ifs" as merely a load of brainstorming. In a brainstorming session it's common to write down stuff you know is rare or unlikely as a way to close of those avenues of investigation. Try to see the subconscious this way, it's blurting out stuff that may be useful or nonsense asking the conscious mind to decide which is which.

As for the imagery with your false memory issue, I can understand it. I'm not the only person on here (I bet there have been loads of us but I've spoken to some members who've said what I'm about to) who's seen graphic images in their intrusive thoughts. In mine, which a large proportion were about harming loved ones or strangers, I would see myself performing the act itself.

To back up my own experience I know of another person who was very disturbed by these graphic images. They got into therapy where they were told it's just their OCD and they greatly improved to the point of beating those problems.

I beat mine a few years ago.

So, if there are people who can see themselves physically harming a person in an intrusive thought doesn't that prove that your mind could do the same with a bat? And let's not forget we dream & daydream where imagery is conjured up by the subconscious.

Therefore the subconscious can conjure up that imagery of your bat.

[Panicandpeace]

That's good news. Well worth pursuing this therapy route.

You're absolutely right about the vaccine. All it will possibly do is allow you to move past this current cycle of anxiety but it shouldn't be there in the first place so will just find itself another target to start it off again. And then we have those who start to doubt tests & vaccines (look at the HIV threads) where it can range into the remotest possibilities like staff tampering/errors or a sociopath in the manufacturing process tainting things. I've seen exactly those "what ifs" on more than one HIV thread in my time here.

This is why it's useful to try to remove the emotion by observing thoughts just as thoughts that have the right to exist. In Mindfulness it teaches you to act as the curious observer that let's thoughts just be and doesn't necessarily get involved in them.

Try to see these subconscious "what ifs" as merely a load of brainstorming. In a brainstorming session it's common to write down stuff you know is rare or unlikely as a way to close of those avenues of investigation. Try to see the subconscious this way, it's blurting out stuff that may be useful or nonsense asking the conscious mind to decide which is which.

As for the imagery with your false memory issue, I can understand it. I'm not the only person on here (I bet there have been loads of us but I've spoken to some members who've said what I'm about to) who's seen graphic images in their intrusive thoughts. In mine, which a large proportion were about harming loved ones or strangers, I would see myself performing the act itself.

To back up my own experience I know of another person who was very disturbed by these graphic images. They got into therapy where they were told it's just their OCD and they greatly improved to the point of beating those problems.

I beat mine a few years ago.

So, if there are people who can see themselves physically harming a person in an intrusive thought doesn't that prove that your mind could do the same with a bat? And let's not forget we dream & daydream where imagery is conjured up by the subconscious.

Therefore the subconscious can conjure up that imagery of your bat.

*You're absolutely right about the vaccine. All it will possibly do is allow you to move past this current cycle of anxiety but it shouldn't be there in the first place so will just find itself another target to start it off again.*

So, I've had trouble even finding a place that offers the vaccine... maybe it's a sign? haha. Although my insurance covers it, I can't find anywhere that offers the vaccine other than travel clinics that don't accept insurance.

You're right, the anxiety probably shouldn't be there, and I've calmed down a bit since last week, but I sometimes can't help but think that I'm calming down because the memory is fading... and again, the what if's: what if that memory is real? You don't want it to fade away before you know for sure if it's real or fake. And my toe is tingling nonstop and driving me insane!

Try to see these subconscious "what ifs" as merely a load of brainstorming. In a brainstorming session it's common to write down stuff you know is rare or unlikely as a way to close of those avenues of investigation. Try to see the subconscious this way, it's blurting out stuff that may be useful or nonsense asking the conscious mind to decide which is which.

This is a great way to look at it!!

So, if there are people who can see themselves physically harming a person in an intrusive thought doesn't that prove that your mind could do the same with a bat? And let's not forget we dream & daydream where imagery is conjured up by the subconscious.

Absolutely!! I have a vivid imagination for sure. I guess, again, I'm just kind of in the process of determining if that memory is in fact false because I unfortunately, just can't remember... or better said, I'm remembering two different versions of the same day. One with a bat and one without.

I kind of felt better after I asked the neighbor if there were bats in the neighborhood, and she said she hadn't seen bats in years, which isn't the same as no bats, but did make me feel a bit better.. . However, then I thought, well my aunt had a bunch of bats in her attic, and I never once saw them around her house. So much for that fleeting moment of comfort haha.

Thanks for all of your input. I think you put things into perspective really well! Good for you for overcoming your intrusive thinking. I've had that for a long time, forget about the current bat situation. My earliest one included me driving off a bridge into a lake when I would make the 2 hour drive back and forth from college. Not because I was suicidal in any way, shape, or form, but just because I thought my body would somehow, involuntarily just veer off of the bridge into the water. I got over it eventually.