Intrusive Thoughts and General Anesthesia

[Panicandpeace]

Hi everybody,

I've had OCD for a long time, although only recently, professionally diagnosed. I have always done checking compulsions i.e., checking the stove is off multiple times before I leave my apartment ,making sure certain things are unplugged like my toaster, curling iron, electronics chargers, etc, checking that my car lights are off, door is locked, and on and on. I'd always just chalk it up as being a quirk, even though I knew it was OCD. Also, sometimes thoughts get stuck in my head aka intrusive thinking. In college, it was about driving off of a bridge that I had to drive over on my way to and from school. I wasn't suicidal, I just conjured up this vivid image of that happening, and it felt like I would somehow lose control of my body one day and impulsively careen myself into the lake below. I started having bad health anxiety after college. I'd go to the doctor all the time, seeking reassurance about everything from blood clots in my legs to worms in my poo... Recently I've had a bad phobia of bats and health anxiety about rabies.

I'm about to have surgery for the second time this year. I really think a lot of the current anxiety I'm having is a result of the first surgery not having gone quite right. This upcoming surgery is a revision of that one. Anyway, in this heightened state of anxiety and OCD I've been in since that first surgery, I had the thought, "What is I confess something incriminating/evil while going under anesthesia?" I learned about something called the Tarasoff exception that says if you give doctors a reason to believe you might harm yourself or others, they can tell authorities. I work with children who I absolutely adore. I have never and would never harm them, and I don't have any intrusive thoughts suggesting that has happened. I don't have false memories or intrusive thoughts about them, the intrusive thought is that I will say that I do in those moments right before I'm completely knocked out by the anesthesia, and not only will the doctors then have to report me to the police, but they will either not do the surgery properly (it's not cosmetic surgery, but there is a cosmetic aspect to it) and leave me deformed OR they'll let me die on the table because of the awful things I say and claim some complication happened. I really like my surgeon, and I think the thought of saying something abhorrent to him is what scares me the most. I know none of it is true. Again, the intrusive thought is that I will say that I've done something, not that I've done something.

Is there anybody else who suffers from OCD and intrusive thinking that has undergone surgery and had similar concerns? I'm going to talk to my therapist about it this week. I'm really wishing I was still obsessed with rabies at the moment. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Some points spring to mind:

1) saying something doesn't mean you may do it. Unless what you say breaks a law, no crime has been committed. Whether their is a safeguarding issue outside of this is going to depend on how genuine they think something is. Otherwise they would have been locking mothers of small children up for generations considering how often "I'm going to kill you" can be said.

2) A doctor's oath is to treat you regardless of anything else. If not, they would struggle to treat so many of us. Morality can be subjective and it differs between countries & cultures. Doctoring transcends all of this. Otherwise how would you live with yourself when you found out that person you saved went out and killed others afterwards?

So, why would a doctor refuse or worse botch you treatment when they wouldn't with someone who may have committed any number of heinous crimes? Most of the time they won't even know but it doesn't have any baring on what a doctor does.

Doctors also have to comply with their licences and the law. Botching a surgery due to a disgust of a patient would see them on trial. Why would they risk that?

The same applies to all medical professionals, they just treat people and help. They leave the judgement to the courts.

Medical professionals, including therapists & counsellors, have to comply with the law. There are normally laws to direct such professionals as to when they need to report something. If they fail to report then they will be investigated as their lack of safeguarding actions didn't allow correct preventative measures to be taken, potentially allowing harm to the patient or a 3rd party.

3) Even if something is confessed the police still have to find a crime. No crime, no prosecution. So, even if your mind blurted out something it thinks it has done it won't be taken at face value and if you haven't done it then nothing can come of it.

It's a fear of losing control issue which is a foundation of many anxiety disorders. The "what ifs" start and you decent into catastrophizing thoughts.

Other members have discussed it before. It may have been when drunk or on drugs, when asleep, etc but they feared things like letting slip what their intrusive thoughts contain. This then makes them worry about being judged and the more emotive themes carry the fear of prosecution, social condemnation, losing loved ones, etc and they may start to worry about self harm.

[Panicandpeace]

Some points spring to mind:

1) saying something doesn't mean you may do it. Unless what you say breaks a law, no crime has been committed. Whether their is a safeguarding issue outside of this is going to depend on how genuine they think something is. Otherwise they would have been locking mothers of small children up for generations considering how often "I'm going to kill you" can be said.

2) A doctor's oath is to treat you regardless of anything else. If not, they would struggle to treat so many of us. Morality can be subjective and it differs between countries & cultures. Doctoring transcends all of this. Otherwise how would you live with yourself when you found out that person you saved went out and killed others afterwards?

So, why would a doctor refuse or worse botch you treatment when they wouldn't with someone who may have committed any number of heinous crimes? Most of the time they won't even know but it doesn't have any baring on what a doctor does.

Doctors also have to comply with their licences and the law. Botching a surgery due to a disgust of a patient would see them on trial. Why would they risk that?

The same applies to all medical professionals, they just treat people and help. They leave the judgement to the courts.

Medical professionals, including therapists & counsellors, have to comply with the law. There are normally laws to direct such professionals as to when they need to report something. If they fail to report then they will be investigated as their lack of safeguarding actions didn't allow correct preventative measures to be taken, potentially allowing harm to the patient or a 3rd party.

3) Even if something is confessed the police still have to find a crime. No crime, no prosecution. So, even if your mind blurted out something it thinks it has done it won't be taken at face value and if you haven't done it then nothing can come of it.

It's a fear of losing control issue which is a foundation of many anxiety disorders. The "what ifs" start and you decent into catastrophizing thoughts.

Other members have discussed it before. It may have been when drunk or on drugs, when asleep, etc but they feared things like letting slip what their intrusive thoughts contain. This then makes them worry about being judged and the more emotive themes carry the fear of prosecution, social condemnation, losing loved ones, etc and they may start to worry about self harm.

It's a fear of losing control issue which is a foundation of many anxiety disorders. The "what ifs" start and you decent into catastrophizing thoughts.

Totally! I just LOVE my job and the people I work for so much, and I think I'm going to screw that up by saying something awful.I wouldn't know what to do if that happened.

This then makes them worry about being judged and the more emotive themes carry the fear of prosecution, social condemnation, losing loved ones, etc and they may start to worry about self harm.

Yes, I don't want to say something awful and be judged for it. I think the worst thing in this world you could possibly say would be to imply harm towards children. I'm so worried that the anesthesia is going to make me blurt out something I would never ever say, think, or do. Anyway, I have 2 weeks to go until then, so hopefully I can get some sort of handle on this.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Intrusive thoughts love to target the things that matter to us most. It's our Achilles Heel. It's no use it picking something that is morally acceptance or a non issue to us as the process is trying to get as much of a fear reaction as possible to reinforce itself.

I doubt it's a coincidence as to why so many parents with them have thoughts about their children. It's obvious, their kids are the most important aspect of their lives. That makes a great big target for intrusive thoughts.

Aside from parents I've seen people who work with kids go through it on here. Teachers, nannies, care workers, coaches, etc. In each of these people just as parents there are going to be strong morals towards children. Again, a big target for intrusive thoughts.

That sounds like you. You love your job. You love working with kids. I would expect you to have a strong sense of morality towards children and their protection. It's natural.

Under strong medication things happen and I expect doctors are used to that. They understand how things like psychosis & delusion don't reflect the true beliefs of a person and so they will understand how medication may do the same. However, that's just another point to counter your fear, I'm not saying that is going to happen and I strongly suspect it won't.

Consider an example. When I was a teenager I had a younger cousin who was so ill he ended up in a specialist children's hospital for months. He's fine now, this must be 30 years ago. But at the time he was thrashing around in bed hitting his mother and swearing. All totally out of character. The consultant told her not to worry, it wasn't him at all because it was due to the impact of the condition on his brain. Obviously it was scary for his parents.

This boy was a really nice kid and was never in trouble. He never was afterwards either. My point is, despite all this he never ended up in any form of monitoring for that violence. It was known to be a part of the condition he was suffering. So, doctors are used to things happening out of character so even IF (and again, I don't believe it will happen) something did whilst under any medication that was known to cause such behaviours why would a doctor not consider the medical facts involved and have a kneejerk reaction that a layman would have?