Anyone here remembers AZ? And rabies fear...

[Fishmanpa]

Thanks for your support Fishmanpa! I appreciate it. I have to get treated because otherwise I will probably end at the mental hospital one day with the mental breakdown. Forum helps too, it helps a lot to read and vent and feel better!

No worries I agree that knowing others have felt the same way and being able to write things out can be cathartic but just don't make it a habit and diary for every niggle and thought. That's counter productive. You've been around and remember some of those posters on AZ. There are a few here too and you can see how it just keeps them in a negative cycle of reassurance seeking and focusing on their thoughts and symptoms.

Positive thoughts

[Double_Rainbow]

I Google rabies while I know I shouldn't have. I'm now anxious again. How come my anxiety can circumvent any logical conclusion with a stupid irrational "what if" and I awalys believe it???

[Fishmanpa]

I Google rabies while I know I shouldn't have. I'm now anxious again.

It's interesting. Googling is essentially shooting yourself in the foot. HA almost seems to have masochistic tendencies doesn't it? You know it's bad for you yet you do it anyway. Is there some kind of mental rush doing it? It's like some of the fail videos on Youtube where the person says... "hold my beer!" and jumps off a roof trying to make it to the pool but fails miserably.

Positive thoughts

[MyNameIsTerry]

Update. This morning, I saw the bunny sitting there as usual, healthy and happy. The owners were understanding, they said that they will monitor it and I can monitor it too, and if they see it getting sick they will let me know immediately. She says to their knowledge she has never been outside or been bit by anything. I feel better now. Only a week more to go and I can hopefully put this behind me.

MyNameIsTerry, you are absolutely right, my friend. That is why waiting is so HARD for someone battling HA (or any A for that matter), because the prize is not to let the rational thinking rule, but to give into a compulsion immediately. Waiting period breaks that cycle. I agree about checking too, I am into compulsive checking [of course] and my goals are not to NOT check at all, but to keep it to a reasonable level. In this case, perhaps taking a brief look at that bunny once a day, as opposite to running there every hour as my mind wants. Checking can be a real nightmare too; at my worst, I can spend several hours a day (yes, several hours a day, meaning at least 2) checking a bump on skin, or a scab, or a mole. Sometimes checking itself creates health problems, ie now I have a self-created sore in my nose from checking for nasopharyngeal cancer, which further feeds anxiety (now I think that sore is cancer). At that level, not checking at all is not an immediate realistic goal. But reducing the checking is. Thanks for your reply!

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During my life, I have been bit and scratched by countless cats, domestic and feral (in the third world country mind you, not in the US), bit by several squirrels (in the US), licked and scratched by countless dogs. I have been feeding raccoons and other wildlife all the time. Not a single time a thought about rabies crossed my mind, and somehow, I managed to survive. And now that little confined bunny that has zero odds of having rabies nipped on me, and I am nearly disabled with panic. I already lost 4 days of my life that I will never get back. I was ready to subject myself to a gruesome series of shots, for nothing. When I see an animal all I can think of is rabies. Even with my dog, who I know is 100% vaccinated and had no exposures whatsoever, I am more cautious now. If HA had its way, I would have confined myself to a sterile room doing nothing else but having medical tests and cancer scans every week. What a life this is. I hate HA.

I think you have a good understanding of anxiety and know, despite how you may ask for support, that ultimately that's all this is.

You can see how the only difference between the you who actively handled animals & situations that are rabies triggers and the HA you now is the thoughts themselves and nothing external that could be happening to you.

This good because one of the battles of many with HA is just getting to that stage, being past the denial and overwhelming reassurance seeking.

You're absolutely right, the fear cycle is only doing what it has been programmed to do by evolution. It's just in this case it has picked on the wrong target. It would be fine to react with the fear cycle to a rampaging big scary bear. We wouldn't seek to change that response from fight of flight. But in this case a cute, fluffy bunny has become the rampaging bear. The fear cycle doesn't know the difference, it just sees a relevant fear has been built and seeks to reinforce it.

To protect us it's not easy to change that fear cycle and it's fears. We have to work on pulling the rug from under it. Dismissing irrational fears, accepting thoughts are allowed to just be thoughts without meaning. But we forget this is not what that cycle is built to receive therefore our effort it greeted with a from the subconscious. It wants as it's conformation it has done something valid (note use of "valid" not "correct" ). And because it doesn't know how to process positive/negative reactions as opposed to negatives, since a big scary bear should remain one, it is fighting us.

Is it so different to how people in dangerous occupations have to learn to control their adrenaline? It's just we have too much of it circulating and all the other mental nastiness it is causing for us.

[Double_Rainbow]

It's interesting. Googling is essentially shooting yourself in the foot. HA almost seems to have masochistic tendencies doesn't it? You know it's bad for you yet you do it anyway. Is there some kind of mental rush doing it? It's like some of the fail videos on Youtube where the person says... "hold my beer!" and jumps off a roof trying to make it to the pool but fails miserably.

Positive thoughts

Yes, it does. I know I tend to google because I have anxiety building up inside me and by looking, let's say, human rabid cases, or cases of rabies in rabbits, I am seeking to reassure myself that my particular case is nothing like what's reported and is not dangerous. But in the end, this still doesn't help because you always think "yeah, but I may be the first one", or "I might be an exception". And if I do find something that seems to support my anxiety agenda, God help me. There will be disabling panic. I had the same pattern 3 years ago when I was fixated on melanoma; I couldn't snap out of it until I got on zoloft and in therapy. By then, I already had 13 mole biopsies and 1 wide excision for an abnormal mole. In about 4 months. Yeah...

---------- Post added at 08:17 ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 ----------

I think you have a good understanding of anxiety and know, despite how you may ask for support, that ultimately that's all this is.

You can see how the only difference between the you who actively handled animals & situations that are rabies triggers and the HA you now is the thoughts themselves and nothing external that could be happening to you.

This good because one of the battles of many with HA is just getting to that stage, being past the denial and overwhelming reassurance seeking.

You're absolutely right, the fear cycle is only doing what it has been programmed to do by evolution. It's just in this case it has picked on the wrong target. It would be fine to react with the fear cycle to a rampaging big scary bear. We wouldn't seek to change that response from fight of flight. But in this case a cute, fluffy bunny has become the rampaging bear. The fear cycle doesn't know the difference, it just sees a relevant fear has been built and seeks to reinforce it.

To protect us it's not easy to change that fear cycle and it's fears. We have to work on pulling the rug from under it. Dismissing irrational fears, accepting thoughts are allowed to just be thoughts without meaning. But we forget this is not what that cycle is built to receive therefore our effort it greeted with a from the subconscious. It wants as it's conformation it has done something valid (note use of "valid" not "correct" ). And because it doesn't know how to process positive/negative reactions as opposed to negatives, since a big scary bear should remain one, it is fighting us.

Is it so different to how people in dangerous occupations have to learn to control their adrenaline? It's just we have too much of it circulating and all the other mental nastiness it is causing for us.

Yes, I agree completely, it is a fight or flight response gone wrong. When I try to convince myself that my HA thoughts are detached from reality, my brain resists saying that "you know it, there is no smoke without fire". This smoke without fire argument is very hard to overcome for me, because I can always make up a scenario that supports my agenda (ie, rabbit was left in the cage outside and the rabid raccoon bit or licked it though the cage). Yes it is fantastical but not 100% impossible, there is always that 0.001% of residual uncertainty that is driving me nuts.

Do you think that anxiety may follow sort of the same genetic scenario as seen with the sickle cell anemia? Because heterozygotes received evolutionary advantage since they can't have malaria, the recessive sickle cell gene got accumulated in the population. For those heterozygous it is beneficial, but recessive homozygous individuals get sick with sickle cell anemia. So I wonder, if there is some anxiety gene that got selected for in the heterozygotes, but as a result recessive homozygotes like us suffer from the unwarranted anxiety.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, I agree completely, it is a fight or flight response gone wrong. When I try to convince myself that my HA thoughts are detached from reality, my brain resists saying that "you know it, there is no smoke without fire". This smoke without fire argument is very hard to overcome for me, because I can always make up a scenario that supports my agenda (ie, rabbit was left in the cage outside and the rabid raccoon bit or licked it though the cage). Yes it is fantastical but not 100% impossible, there is always that 0.001% of residual uncertainty that is driving me nuts.

Do you think that anxiety may follow sort of the same genetic scenario as seen with the sickle cell anemia? Because heterozygotes received evolutionary advantage since they can't have malaria, the recessive sickle cell gene got accumulated in the population. For those heterozygous it is beneficial, but recessive homozygous individuals get sick with sickle cell anemia. So I wonder, if there is some anxiety gene that got selected for in the heterozygotes, but as a result recessive homozygotes like us suffer from the unwarranted anxiety.

I remember some reading about genes being passed on by anxiety sufferers. The interesting found I found was that whilst a gene may be passed it still has to be set to "on" (by methylation) and equally how that gene can be reset to "off" as well as genes can be changed. This was arguing that even if it is passed on something has to cause an environment to see it as appropriate for switch on. There was also a study of methylation in children in how to switch it off.

This was all in the epigenetics research that has been important to cancer research. They have even developed anti cancer meds to exploit the methylation process.

[Fishmanpa]

I have crippling HA.

It's been awhile since AZ shut down but there's still plenty of saved info on the web. A little digging and up comes several old threads from AZ. I remember clearly now... No doubt you're back in the rabbit hole here D Rainbow.

What did you do all this time in-between AZ and here to control your HA?

Positive thoughts

[Double_Rainbow]

It's been awhile since AZ shut down but there's still plenty of saved info on the web. A little digging and up comes several old threads from AZ. I remember clearly now... No doubt you're back in the rabbit hole here D Rainbow.

What did you do all this time in-between AZ and here to control your HA?

Positive thoughts

I am 100% back into the hole Fishmanpa. I admit it. Back then I had a crisis with melanoma anxiety in the late 2015, and then I went on zoloft 50mg and in therapy. Slowly over the next few months it tapered off to manageable levels, then I had a baby and increased zoloft to 150mg, kept going into therapy and I felt very much better. That "much better" point was somewhere in the late 2016. I was on zoloft for another year after that (until late 2017) when I got off. I decided to see if I would be fine without it. And initially I was. But the turning point came in August when I was threatened with a [frivolous] lawsuit from my past employer. I totally lost it then. The lawsuit fear went away by mid-October but the anxiety train has already left the station. And I relapsed with oral cancer panic, then sarcoma, then this rabies stuff has pushed me over the edge. So now I got on zoloft again, and will go into therapy as soon as we move.

Bottom line, I know now this isn't something that's just going to go away. I need to learn to manage it long-term. Having a plan is important. I need to be working on that as soon as I feel better again.

[Fishmanpa]

Bottom line, I know now this isn't something that's just going to go away. I need to learn to manage it long-term. Having a plan is important. I need to be working on that as soon as I feel better again.

True... the positive is you recognize it and are taking pro-active measures to address it. Just be careful as the forum, while great for knowing you're not alone and cathartic being able to write out your feelings, is also a double edged sword as reassurance is addictive.

Positive thoughts

[Double_Rainbow]

True... the positive is you recognize it and are taking pro-active measures to address it. Just be careful as the forum, while great for knowing you're not alone and cathartic being able to write out your feelings, is also a double edged sword as reassurance is addictive.

Positive thoughts

Yes, I know that too much reassurance is harmful. It does, however, help to survive the crisis days like I had this past weekend. It is like mental benzos, if you will. I don't take them but if I had some on hand during the weekend, I would have taken it - yes, it got that bad. Instead, I turned to reassurance to help me through.

The forum also may instill some new fears that one didn't have before. Reading about rabies and cancers and ALS eventually gets to your brain. I didn't really think about rabies at all until I read about it on AZ, and it got into my head and never left. Until years later it got out as this crisis I am dealing with now.