Advice need for a 9 Year old,please

[kmp001]

I have found this website and I am desperately concerned for my 9 year old daughter. Off and on since my daughter was around 2 she has gone through phases of a fear of going places and getting very upset and worked up prior to the event/place and when she is finally there seems to be ok and would have a good time. I at the time put this down to age and part of growing up and being left without mummy. However lately in the past year things have become more serious. She sees her dad every 2 weeks and is very regular with him loves him to pieces. When going to her Dad's or a friends or even a family friend, the evening before she becomes very upset is constantly asking what time is she going what time will she back and it needs to be specific. Come the morning she complains of having tummy aches/crams she often has diorrea. She becomes hysterical at some points. When I ask her why she just says ' i don't know why, I want to go but...and then she can't explain it any further. I believe that she genuinely cannot explain it. There was also an icident recently. She was very moody, quiet tearful and during these days she walked around continuously with a pencil case full of pens and she spent the whole 2 days walking round with it and constantly reshaping them so that they were perfectly aligned. She misbehaved and I said to her that if she did it agin her pens would be taken away. She did it again and I took her pencil case and I cannot explain to the full effect of her reaction but she screamed in absolute terror at me not because I had taken them but because i had moved them out of alignment. Her eyes and her face I will never forget to be totally honest she frightened me. Her reaction was totally overreactive. I am sorry that this has turned into a long one but I honestly don't know what to do. I feel on one hand that I may be blowing things out of proportion but in my heart I know that this is not just an age thing and not just a case of I don't want to go. Any advice greatly appreciated...

[benoo5]

hya,
my reply is going to be short,because meg,and nicola,will be able to advise you much better than me.
i found this wonderful site,when i was researching OCD for a friend of mine...it could be your little girl has a similar problem,but eary diagnosis,is essential...post here as often as you want...my very best wishes for you both...bryan

[nomorepanic]

Hi there

This sounds very serious to me. Are you sure she is happy going to the places that you send her - i.e. her dad's. My first reation (and I apologise for this) was that she was being abused in some way so that is why she didn't want to go.

I am sure this is not the case but that was my gut feeling! sorry if that offended you

Have you asked her dad how she is when she is there?

She needs to see a counsellor of some sorts as these problems can only escalate out of control and get worse. I have not heard of a child this young having these problems as they have no concept of panic/anxiety/ocd etc.

How do you feel about that?

Nicola

[Meg]

Dear Karen

This is so hard for you if you've not met it before but rest assured this is fairly common. 1 in 200 children show classic OCD signs which these are.

It is very treatable and in classic anxiety based troubles the treatments are CBT/ exposure therapy with/or one of the SSRI's antidepressant but these are used widely for a variety of anxiety based illnesses.

A couple of books - one for you is

Brain Lock : Free Yourself from Obsessive-Compulsive Behavior by Jeffrey M. Schwartz

One for your daughter is - Up and down the worry Hill - by Aureen Pinto Wagner - it's excellent.

One of the most commonest symptoms in children is :

'Obsessive need for order or symmetry: An overwhelming need to align objects "just so." Abnormal concerns about the neatness of one's personal appearance or environment. '

Others are concerned with germs , safety of family members etc

My suggestions to you would be:

See your GP and ask for a referal to a child psych. Do not accept him/her messing about in general practice. The sooner she sees someone who deals with this day in day out the better.

Get the book for her whilst you wait and see what her reaction is to it..

Ensure she's eating very nutritiously or add in a mineral and vitamin supplement.

Keep life as normal as possible - don't use her obsessions as rewards / punishments but equally play them down and keep her going out and about .


She possibly started with an excess of seperation anxiety which has moved to OCD.

Hobbies wise - keep her active and focussed alternating with time relaxing and feeling very safe probably with you.

An odd one but try to give her responsibilities of looking after something else living that makes her feel needed and valued - ie walking the dog- but not as a chore- , a neighbours pet when on holiday - working in rescue kennels etc

Let us know how you get on. We're here for you ...









Meg

Watch your thoughts, they become your words...
Watch your words, they become your actions... Watch your actions, they become your habits... Watch your habits, they become your character... Watch your character, it becomes your destiny...

[kmp001]

I was not offended but a little shocked at the suggestion of abuse. Her Dad and I are still very close and I have discussed this problem with him as he sees how upset she gets. She is fine when she is there it is just the getting here there. I didn't mention in the 1st posting that it seems to be with people that she knows. She is happy to go to school and has been attending a holiday club during half term with strangers and has been happy to go. Last weekend it was to go to the cinema with her godmother and she just got so worked up before she went was crying when we got there but managed to calm down and I spoke to her Godmother (who was the one who suggested panic attack) and asked how she was once she was with her and she was fine had a good time wasn't quiet or withdrawn. It seems to be the build up to where she is going and the thought of it. You can see in her face that she desperately wants to get it under control but she just can't which is why I know it's not just a simple case of tears because she doesn't want to go. The only thing she ever says is 'I want to go but' and she always stops there or she says I just want to be with you. I have never been late to pick her up or not been there when I said I would be and I thought perhaps she was just a little insecure but we have tried talking to her she just cannot explain it I am so grateful to all your advice and the books sound a great idea and I have got a doctors appointment for her and I on thursday. I am so frightened of going down this road the last thing that I want to do is make her feel abnormal, or indifferent. It terrifies me that I might get this all wrong and I don't want her to grow up and there be a problem and her say that my mum never understood me...does this sound all wrong? Thanksxxxx

[nomorepanic]

Hi again

Sorry I wasn't implying that her dad was sexually abusing her or anything, I just wondered if someone close was maybe smacking her or punishing her and that is why she was scared of people she knew - because she didn't trust them.

Radar's advice is excellent - she knows much more than me about these things.

I am glad that you have a doc's appointment booked - get this thing sorted out whilst she is still young so she can have a normal healthy and happy childhood. I wouldn't wish panic attacks on my worst enemy let alone a young child with all her life ahead of her.

I wish you luck and please let us know how it goes :-)

Nicola

[Meg]

Dear Karen,

It so sounds like classic anxiety.. but kiddies cannot express the fears they feel.

You could ask her to draw what she's feeling. Often much more is expressed in these pictures then in their words. Watch for colours, grinding in of the crayons in certain part of the picture- any little details that she may add in that looks like not very much to you. Leave her to do it alone - don't watch over her for this.

When you take her to see a specialist don't worry of making her feel abnormal. Have the conversation with her so she knows what it's all about. It's your choice whether you go down meds route or a combination or just try out CBT first. It is important she's assessed. Take as much evidence with you as possible - dates when first noticed it, specific incidents, any school reports that refer to her behaviour- especially if she's fine there. it helps them build up a fuller picture.

You would be in the wrong if you didn't do anything and she grew up like this with no intervention. What do Dad/grandparents think ?

In the meantime teach her abdominal breathing- slow deep tummy rising breathing with the out breath longer than the in one.In for 2 out for 3. Practice it lying down to start with when she's fine, then sitting and when she's good at that - standing. When you first see her get agitated insist you do a 3 minute stint of these and see if it has any calming effect.

Have you tried her with rescue remedy ? It's may be worth a try - any Boots complementary counter and ask them ? for kids too. (It's also a very common treatment for pets on firework night) Just 2 drops in her drink. It's flower essences preserved in grape alcohol. 2 drops will not have much alcohol content . Try www.bachcentre.com for further advice on this with chidren.

It's interestng that it's mainly with social trips and people she knows. I do wonder whether she's holding an image in her head - from a film, a book, a friend's chatter or some other experience that triggers her off. Could be surrounding kidnapping, a child being lost and alone etc.
What's she like with going to friends houses or having them over to hers, or somewhere where there are several people to meet up with.

All the best for Thursday. Do let us know how you're doing.


Meg

Watch your thoughts, they become your words...
Watch your words, they become your actions... Watch your actions, they become your habits... Watch your habits, they become your character... Watch your character, it becomes your destiny...

[andrew]

hi karen

good luck with finding help and support for your daughter.

alot of fellow strugglers that i've spoken too over the last couple of years can see anxiety and o.c.d. traits running all the way back to and through our own childhoods. how you've described your daughters behaviour sounds very similar.

your doing the right things, talking to her, rest of your family, friends and even coming here to ask opinion. the next step is to get her treated, its not a terminal illness or insanity, shes picked up some 'thought processes' that are causing her some distress and she needs to unlearn them. keep your feet on the ground, if she wants to know whats happening - keep it simple, your trying to help her understand whats happening and to help make it stop. if you have to, be totally insistant with the DR for a referal to a suitable source of help.

its nobodies fault, just a situation that needs to be dealt with it. it may take a while, keep in touch, ask whatever.

take care andrew

[kmp001]

Thank you so much once again. I have today spoken to my mum about it,she has seen Alice become upset although not to the full extent. She agrees that it is not good for her to be so upset and also agreed that you can tell she desperately tries to get in under control and she just can't. On Friday she was going to her frinds for tea, her best friend knows her parents very well and the same thing but again was ok once she was there. I will let you know how I get on on Thursday. She has always been a very deep thinker and does tend to stew and worry about things that seem small. Thank you once again I truly have found you all a great help....

[nomorepanic]

Hi Karen

I am pleased that we have helped - I think maybe Radar did more than me but we all have our own opinions and advice and it helps to get different views on life.

Let's hope the doc comes up with some good advice!




Nicola