Originally Posted by
mezzaninedoor
I think there has been a lot written in analysis regards the Brexit vote and its roots in class.
Historian Jon Lawrence tells us that to experience class at the wrong end of the scale, where you have been economically forgotten, culturally denigrated and politically marginalised it can become a fight against visible and invisible forces. Those invisible forces partly being projected onto the EU in this recent referendum vote & immigration.
We saw traditional Labour heartlands vote for Brexit partly because of being forgotten and the belief that the coffers of Government were being spent in metropolitan areas especially London.
Some will vote out of protest at our own government which is bizarre if the EU have no fault in any of it. Cameron was criticised for backing Remain but to be honest it wouldn't matter as MP's on both sides represent the elite to those that vote this way. I do believe the PM should have taken a neutral stance and been there to guide, debunk and offer facts, etc but he threw his lot in with Remain and trotted out BS with them. That would only push more to vote against his cause just as Blair popping up causing a collective groan across the country.
But that's one of many reasons Labour heartlands voted Leave, I'm in one (or was as it flipped to Tory for the first time in it's existence of over 100 years in the last GE). People are unhappy with immigration because they can see it affecting them. Businesses bussing in cheaper labour losing jobs to locals and keeping wages supressed. Struggling to get NHS appointments because of the demands of immigration (and this falls on all our governments in not keeping pace with inward investment to meet population increases). Some have seen Labour councillors prioritising immigrants or ethnic communities when it comes to housing or housing upgrades (councils being afraid to challenge positive discrimination in some cases). My local Asian community have been complaining for many years about increased racism due to European immigration.
Originally Posted by
mezzaninedoor
There was a narrative that UKIP and Leave could use to educate those disaffected people into voting for Brexit even though in many ways the people in the Leave project were part of the Elite with some of them having links with people shorting ( investment wise ) against the pound and British business.
Sadly it was all a shambles. I can honestly say that whilst my vote stands in my eyes I do know more about the technical elements that I should have been informed on before. But then how many of our MP's even understand it? Some of them even now get it wrong on TV in interviews, basic mistakes.
But I think there is a danger in buying into this narrative a certain element are selling that unless you are a professor or captain of industry you are too thick to know how to vote. Not everyone is so easily guided by BS and I'm of the mind that if by the time you reach the end of your twenties and haven't worked out ALL politicians speak with fork tongues then you are naïve. This argument is used to undermine the working class by reducing them to thick bigots. It's an argument for technocracy, not democracy. You have to take the rough with the smooth or democracy goes out the window.
Besides UKIP in GE's had never put up a manifesto with any real solutions in it. They typically exist due to feelings and as we have seen without Farage they are nothing. Why would they educate anyone? That's like thinking the SNP are going to educate you on how Scotland can live outside the union when you would be putting your trust in people who are biased.
But you are right, someone should have been educated us all. Not Leave voters, all voters. But even now it's BS between the UK and the EU with speculations being put out about things when we have clear written policies that state how it is and should be. There are too many people contradicting each other over here and over there.
Originally Posted by
mezzaninedoor
A recent Tory thinktank has reversed the idea that people want more choice, social mobility and autonomy with the idea that people want to belong, they rallied around the Union Jack for Brexit and want to be protected by Government from the modern world and its ravages. The thing is in some industries the Government or any prospective Government has no idea how to deal with the march of Online selling vs the High Street or other such dilemmas within modern economies where the internet and globalism has really had an affect.
The Labour party appears to misread the politics of community as well and where it had a real connection with the working classes other parties have been able to begin to pick that apart and tell us a tale where Labour for some is more for recent immigrants than it is for long standing residents of the UK, that it is more about big political reforms like renationalisation than it is about all the small problems that people face in localities.
Did this start with the Blair years? It probably predates it too. I mentioned this above but in my area people would be unhappy with prioritisation of certain minorities by Labour when they were always seen as the party of the working class. They chased minority votes. But I think minorities are vocal and press for change whereas we are just used to it coming to us. One of the dangers though has been the fear of accusations of racism and as we are seeing with child abuse scandals local authorities were afraid to challenge people and some of them will have used that to their advantage. Perception management is very important, the press love a good discrimination story. Even now companies are terrified of telling people to go away when they raise a daft complaint about their advertising.
Discussions of immigration were stifled when it came to non white immigration and especially from Islamic states. Of course some of this was completely bigoted and racist but shouting down everyone became the go-to strategy. When this happens you get backlashes and with them come the real racists riding the wave and feeling vindicated because the normal people are endorsing them in their tiny little minds.
In some ways you do have to help ethnic communities more because of the additional challenges we face but as you say our governments just aren't very good at it. They lurch from nothing to 100mph and end up offending someone.
Originally Posted by
mezzaninedoor
Succesful engagement with the modern working class does not seem to be about whom speaks to whom on the doorstep or about mystical working class values but perhaps its about essential needs of everyone being met. Often someone will say, how can that rich elite businessman go bankrupt to the tune of millions and yet I have to argue so long and hard just to get the universal benefits that im entitled to as teh safety net of this country.
With the housing issues that affect the young when buying into the housing market, low paid retail jobs that were in abundance dissapearing etc etc isn't it probably true that for many that a full, rich life , free of those stresses that are avoidable now feels quite hard for many to achieve?
Changing industry needs to be met with new investment to bring in jobs. The trouble is, as my city has found, it's not an equal job that comes back. We used to have well paid pottery workers and now we have lower paid unskilled warehouse workers, call centre agents, etc. The companies that come here are tempted by low rents and lower salaries so they make their workforce redundant in one area and come here to save money.
Such issues, and many others of general unhappiness, predate the EU and take us back to Thatcher. We lost our pottery, coal and steel industries. Well paid, skilled jobs. Now we hump boxes about and get shouted at over the phone for minimum wage. But goods are cheaper as now they get made in China for a fraction of the price and we all pay less.
At what point do we decide to pay more so we have more jobs? If we don't we need new industries. We were lucky to see Japanese investment across the country but will we retain it now?
Reply With Quote
The only thing they’re truly supporting is the downfall of our democratic process. They can’t see the Forest for the trees.
There was speculation she would go as she was reported as considering her position but she just got drawn over the coals for it as she showed a lack of conviction and sold herself out even taking the job. I wonder how many of us really believed her when she thought she could change things from the inside? More like career first...
Cummings seems like an unpleasant bloke who just likes the fight itself. 
