He's just riding the gravy train himself. Tory & Labour have created an opportunity for guys like him to come back. They haven't got on with it and people are getting sick of it all. Then there is all the "the public have changed their minds" stuff and you start to see people questioning whether it will ever happen.Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor
Lets also remember it's a party, not Farage. Guy V said it would be madness to put Farage back in as a MEP but on the voting for my region I can't see his name.
Yes, he tells porkies...like them all. If he ever got in I don't think he would have a clue what to do, much like Boris.
What is there out for people? Over Brexit, nothing.
- The Tories have May's deal and Common Market 2.0, the first is unpopular with both sides of the vote and the second isn't really Brexit at all. Which is worse? The ERP lot want a No Deal but I suspect the public are mostly against that anyway.
- Labour are the "everyman" and it's hard to trust which way they would go if in power and want a fairy-tale Customs Union that doesn't exist and likely never will. Even his front bench are at odds with each other with the likes of Corbyn/Gardiner/Abbott one way, Thornberry/McDonnell another and Starmer doing the negotiating yet he is at odds with their leader on what to be negotiating for (Corbyn won't agree to the confirmatory vote, Starmer is pursuing it which May doesn't want to offer). Who is in charge of this party? And Starmer is making noises about leaving and maybe campaigning for leadership.
- The LibDems want to cancel the whole thing so they are out straight away if you want Brexit.
- UKIP have gone much further to the right into BNP territory and it's been proven by the later GE most of UKIP's vote was because of the EU issue.
- SNP? Only if you are Scottish. They would cancel Brexit tomorrow.
- Plaid. Same but Welsh. Not sure where they sit.
- Green? Another cancel Brexit party.
- CHUK? Too small and likely to be wiped out at the next GE anyway? Chukka is after the top job just as much as Boris.
If Brexit happens Farage will likely disappear. There will be no purpose to TBP.
I can't remember seeing Farage talking about the Norway model, I know he did as I have read about it but I'm talking about what pieces of the news I watched at the time but I can clearly remember Boris doing so. I remember thinking about it because it was mentioned. Cameron was saying the opposite, out means out.
I think you need to consider he is a means to an end. That's how I see it just as I did when he was in UKIP. I never voted for them, they had no policies I could see of for a start other than this one. Voting TBP now is about sending a message to both May & Corbyn not to frustrate this until it fizzles out. Sort it and you get your votes back. But at a GE it may be a different matter because there are much wider concerns...although from my point of view I have a concern if you vote for the manifesto it will be perverted into a "support for Brexit xyz policy".
If not TBP the only party is the Tories? Labour still won't come out so how can you vote for them? But then perhaps the Tories need a good kick up the backside?
As a Remainer you could go LibDem or Green. They want to ignore the issues and hope the worms go back in the can. How many Remainers agree with that policy unless there is enough to warrant it from the economic side? That can of worms will keep Farage & co very much alive campaigning and many feeling forgotten. So, are Remainers committed to these parties? I'm not so sure as despite them doing well in local elections the polling for the EP looks very different.
Would Remainers trust the Tories or Labour? I suspect Remainers could trust Labour as despite Corbyn's past there is enough evidence to suggest they will push for a Soft Brexit. Although some of them want to run a rigged confirmatory vote too and that should worry everyone. It would seem Remainers would find it harder to vote Tory but how many of them are concerned about Corbyn's competency? He's never ran anything, his policies go far beyond Brexit into changes business are concerned about.
If you vote Farage you obviously throw you lot in with others that do. That will include the racist element who I suspect will see UKIP are over. But if you think they are the same groups you must wonder about Labour too...lots of racist Labour types up this way and always have been (remember, up here it's the working man's party...historically white working man).
But if vote cable aren't you voting to frustrate a democratic vote? Someone might do this on the basis it's right to stop the damage but Cable & co have been anti Brexit no matter what, their rhetoric has been/is divisive and they chase the youth vote (which is pointless as Labour have that nailed) and they appear to have no plan on how to tackle what led to the referendum. They just want to shove it back in a drawer and let the world tick along. Less sure on the Greens but they come from a different angle on things anyway.
From my point of view Farage is a means to getting the Tories & Labour to panic and get on with the job rather than sitting in their comfort zones kicking the can down the road for years. The people had a say, but they stopped being represented later and politicians squabbled and voted tactically. Yes, he is advocating a No Deal but that's not my choice either so he doesn't work for me in something like a GE but then he never would as he is a protest type rather than a serious consideration to run anything. So my hope lies in a big short shock to "the system" and a waking up of the two main parties. Then we can all let Farage drift out of sight and get back on with everything else going on in the UK, much of which is hidden by all this.
Anything Farage wins will be touted as a win for No Deal. I agree with one of his candidates who said taking No Deal off the table was idiotic, it's negotiation and doing this automatically weakens your hand. It should remain symbolically at least even though you know you won't do it. How any win for Farage is moved from a No Deal to the spectrum of options, I don't know...but it will need to be somehow.
If May moves on her CU red line then her deal might be more palatable as a Soft Brexit and squeak over the line in Parliament as well as win enough of the middle ground voters. I suspect that will also end the Tories as it will be seen as a Labour win.
It would be good to get other thoughts on this, and a Remainers point of view on where to vote, at the moment as it's hard to know which way to go. There seem to be risks in all of it. All thoughts welcome, Tony.
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) he didn't actually say that. He actually said "Not full-on porn, but images, for example, and then they could discuss whether that's a good thing or not." which could mean watching scenes that are shown on TV already to portray sexual abuse, rape, etc. 