Today’s headlines .........

[Phill2]

Is the bloke in white the official bum wiper

[MyNameIsTerry]

Is the bloke in white the official bum wiper

Yes, that's why he has one hand behind his back as it's like nicotine stains once you've worked there long enough. Also, them being politicians he probably has to offer them a hand shandy as a service too, offering aftershave like many toilet attendants would be too minor a service.

[mezzaninedoor]

Its really interesting to see the main stream media still trying to demonise Jeremy Corbyn during this period where there are 20+ Conservatives who are saying that Boris Johnson is not using Conservative principles to govern the country. Hes not being fiscally responsible or being a One Nation Conservative.

It still seems that setting Jeremy Corbyn up as a dodgy Trot has more negatives than lovable rogue Boris Johnson who wants to drive the UK economy off a cliff in a No Deal.

Rees Mogg and Johnson both calling Corbyn chicken when theres no way he should go for an election that would likely deliver a No Deal but journalists just don't seem to be offering deep analysis of the Tory slide to the right. Its ignomy for Soames and Clarkes careers to end in this way.

Politics is horrible at the moment.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Its really interesting to see the main stream media still trying to demonise Jeremy Corbyn during this period where there are 20+ Conservatives who are saying that Boris Johnson is not using Conservative principles to govern the country. Hes not being fiscally responsible or being a One Nation Conservative.

It still seems that setting Jeremy Corbyn up as a dodgy Trot has more negatives than lovable rogue Boris Johnson who wants to drive the UK economy off a cliff in a No Deal.

Rees Mogg and Johnson both calling Corbyn chicken when theres no way he should go for an election that would likely deliver a No Deal but journalists just don't seem to be offering deep analysis of the Tory slide to the right. Its ignomy for Soames and Clarkes careers to end in this way.

Politics is horrible at the moment.

With much of the media being government backing, whichever party is in e.g. BBC, or having a permanent basis based on their ownership anyway so they are bound to sell Corbyn as bad. The Mirror is Labour supporting but they loath Corbyn and have from the start but since Blair intervened urging Labour not to support a GE they will leave Corbyn alone.

Boris being a write for the rags means he has his mates to back him up.

Businesses are as afraid of Corbyn government as No Deal what with McDonnell wanting to raid shares and stifle markets like private rents. And then we have the enormous spending on re-nationalisation programmes.

He's really lost his majority now though so it is difficult not to see a GE coming. Those DUP votes aren't enough anymore are they?

[MyNameIsTerry]

The General Election is a trap for Labour because Labour would lose it and hand Boris a majority, he and Cummings know that and are hoping that Corbyn, Sturgeon will go for it. Tories will lose seats to SNP in Scotland but will gain from Labour in England. Labour need a new leader in order to win an Election.

Avoiding 'No Deal' is what the Rebel Alliance ( Star Wars !!! ) need to focus on, Boris has been lying about it going well as EU have not had a single proposal from him regards what the UK would do instead of the currently agreed withdrawal agreement.

True. I just think even if Corbyn supported it and Boris set it as 1/11 they could raise an emergency Bill to do the same as now and force an extension. The EU would be willing do so do for a GE and Hammond has obviously been asking about this recently to raise this issue with the likes of Starmer and Grieve.

Doing it this way removes the chance that couldn't happen but it's hard not to see it with no Tory majority and the other parties would support it under the Remain banner.

The Tory rebels may not support a GE as they are toast in their constituencies. But it is time we start having by-elections for those who leave parties as it's getting a bit ridiculous now with the latest defection to the Lib Dems and the CHUK bunch from both parties. They can no longer claim to represent their constituents, certainly not on Brexit anyway in many cases.

Have you seen Corbyn has annoyed the SNP? He may lose their support now. He won't allow them an independence vote on the basis he wants Labour to help Scotland...but Labour is dead up there.

We seem to have no idea what they are doing with the EU but it doesn't sound good. Boris winning could justify No Deal and his strategy so it is risky. And it's not like Brexit is all we vote on. But I do find it very interesting that even despite all this, polls show Boris still beats Corbyn. Doesn't that tell Labour they need to pull their heads out of their bums? They couldn't beat a very lacklustre May and now a supposedly hated BoJo. I do wonder whether Corbyn will moan about wanting more GE's but still back out even when this Bill comes in and one senior Labour "source" (which could mean any bloke walking past a reporting or a fictional person these days) has said he doesn't want a GE even with an extension.

[AntsyVee]

Aha, so they worked out our betters then. I think people may not realise that whilst the Roundheads removed the power of the monarchy back then there was a class system that strongly kept we little people in our subservient place. That might seem strange to Americans but black Americans might find some similarity in their second class status to the working class Brit in our history? We were cattle to the middle classes and aristocracy but then it's the same in the history of every nation to an extent (we had no cake and guillotines though...I studied French history and it was so much more exciting! )

On no Terry, they get it. All of my students, except two, are non-white.

Its just that in the US, we know there are class and racial differences, but it’s not blatantly on display by ones government. In our country, everyone knows the system is biased against the lower classes, but it’s never acknowledged by the gov’t. When the kids see yours, or even talk about your constitutional monarchy, they are amazed that higher classes are so readily acknowledged and that primogeniture still is the way of your royalty. Remember, most of them have never been off our continent before.

FYI...the cake thing is a myth. But they still have some guillotines in France.

[mezzaninedoor]

I think there has been a lot written in analysis regards the Brexit vote and its roots in class.
Historian Jon Lawrence tells us that to experience class at the wrong end of the scale, where you have been economically forgotten, culturally denigrated and politically marginalised it can become a fight against visible and invisible forces. Those invisible forces partly being projected onto the EU in this recent referendum vote & immigration.
We saw traditional Labour heartlands vote for Brexit partly because of being forgotten and the belief that the coffers of Government were being spent in metropolitan areas especially London.
There was a narrative that UKIP and Leave could use to educate those disaffected people into voting for Brexit even though in many ways the people in the Leave project were part of the Elite with some of them having links with people shorting ( investment wise ) against the pound and British business.
A recent Tory thinktank has reversed the idea that people want more choice, social mobility and autonomy with the idea that people want to belong, they rallied around the Union Jack for Brexit and want to be protected by Government from the modern world and its ravages. The thing is in some industries the Government or any prospective Government has no idea how to deal with the march of Online selling vs the High Street or other such dilemmas within modern economies where the internet and globalism has really had an affect.
The Labour party appears to misread the politics of community as well and where it had a real connection with the working classes other parties have been able to begin to pick that apart and tell us a tale where Labour for some is more for recent immigrants than it is for long standing residents of the UK, that it is more about big political reforms like renationalisation than it is about all the small problems that people face in localities.
Succesful engagement with the modern working class does not seem to be about whom speaks to whom on the doorstep or about mystical working class values but perhaps its about essential needs of everyone being met. Often someone will say, how can that rich elite businessman go bankrupt to the tune of millions and yet I have to argue so long and hard just to get the universal benefits that im entitled to as teh safety net of this country.

With the housing issues that affect the young when buying into the housing market, low paid retail jobs that were in abundance dissapearing etc etc isn't it probably true that for many that a full, rich life , free of those stresses that are avoidable now feels quite hard for many to achieve?

[AntsyVee]

There was a narrative that UKIP and Leave could use to educate those disaffected people into voting for Brexit even though in many ways the people in the Leave project were part of the Elite with some of them having links with people shorting ( investment wise ) against the pound and British business.

Yes, I spoke about this in class to explain how so many people were led to vote for Brexit.

The Labour party appears to misread the politics of community as well and where it had a real connection with the working classes other parties have been able to begin to pick that apart and tell us a tale where Labour for some is more for recent immigrants than it is for long standing residents of the UK, that it is more about big political reforms like renationalisation than it is about all the small problems that people face in localities.

This has been going on in the US with our Democrat party. It’s really disillusioned many, and contributed to the election of Trump.

if one looks at the political trends across many of the developed nations right now, there is a rise of nationalism, a domination of two political parties/less choice, and a larger ratio between the rich elite and the working class. As a historian, sometimes it scares the hell outta me.

[mezzaninedoor]

There is definitely a rise in Nationalism in Europe, right across Europe.
Some political parties like the Tories seem to be addressing it by embracing it ( hence expelling the 21 rebels ) rather than fighting it.
We have lots of people who shout down human rights as just PC gone mad when human rights have in many countries been essential to people finding better lives.
I'm pretty upset with politics at the moment but I'm hoping that the recent HOC collaboration could be a move towards a more collaborative politics and also proportional representation as an election method.

[MyNameIsTerry]

How do you define the elite? Billionaires? To many working class people the bar is set far lower. Any MP is elite, big salary and insulated from the wrongs without much of a clue how things really are. People earning large salaries are middle class but can be considered elitist not only due to the financial side but how some view higher education to mean a worthier human being. These have long been working class complaints. Don't look just to the disaster capitalists and don't forget that all current systems are beneficial to the elites since they occupy both sides of such arguments.