Ketogenic diet issues?

[ankietyjoe]

Hi all.

I'm curious about something I experienced this weekend, and wondered if anybody else who has tried the keto diet had similar experiences.

Saturday marked day 7 for me. I noticed a surge in ketones in the blood, my test strips were showing 4mmol - moderate ketone levels.

For some reason I started to feel irritable and 'tight' by Saturday evening. Wasn't feeling anxious, just 'tight'. Later on I was watching a film with my son and I noticed my heart was beating a bit hard and fast (over 90bpm). Again, no anxiety, just felt off. By bedtime, it had started to kick off a bit. My heart rate was now over 100bpm, and to cut a long story short it stayed over 100bpm all night, spiking hard if I got up to pee etc. Again, no anxiety or panic involved, although by this point my brain had started the 'what if' rituals.

I have been reading that going into ketosis can spike cortisol pretty hard, and I'm putting it down to that. I'm feeling that I have a 'body memory' of what stress feels like, and my body was perceiving the stress of ketosis a long time before I was.

I had to pull myself out of ketosis on Sunday, and low and behold things went back to normal.

I want to try it again (annoying as you can't switch ketosis on and off), but it's not sustainable for me to experience that kind of symptom (tightness, rapid heart beat) for a prolonged period of time. Even Mr know it all here has limits....

Anybody else gone through a similar experience?

Edit - I'm pretty sure I'm on top of electrolytes, but it's possible I still wasn't taking enough. Potassium in particular is easy to be cautious with because of the warnings on supplement bottles.

[ankietyjoe]

I'm not diabetic though, and I didn't really have any other symptoms of ketoacidosis. It was just a stressed out tachycardia feeling.

It has been suggested that this is simply down to low electrolyte intake. The recommendation is for 10g salt (equivalent) per day, and I'm pretty sure I was well under that for at least a week.

[ankietyjoe]

What about duplicating your ketosis diet with an additional 10g of salt (with plenty of water or even an isotonic drink)? This may prove/disprove the electrolyte angle....

That's what I'll be doing next, or at least making sure I reach 10g per day. Perhaps it's ingrained instinct not to eat that much salt per day because of outdated dietary recommendations.

[DustingMyselfOff]

The struggle (with keto) is real. I love and hate that way of eating. About 30 years ago I did a strict Atkins Diet (long before "low carb" was popular) and I never felt better. I did it for 9 months, and then started having a strange medical symptom (skin related) that none of the doctors could figure out, and since no one knew much about low carb back then, they all chalked it up to my way of eating, so I gave it up and started eating like everyone else.

Then a few years ago when I remembered how great I felt doing low carb, I learned all I could about the keto way of eating and followed it strictly. I lost weight and usually felt great, but there were days when I would feel pretty bad (either mentally, physically, or both) and I would wonder if it was diet-related. If I posted on the keto forum, of course they would insist it was NOT caused by the diet, or they would tell me what additional supplements and vitamins and minerals I needed to add to my diet. I never could figure out if any of it were true, and you really shouldn't be haphazardly throwing new vitamins and supplements at your body without knowing for sure your body NEEDS them, so there were side affects from those, interactions with my medications, etc. In the end, I went with "moderation is the key" and stopped doing strict keto and added back in some carbs. I still try to limit them as much as possible, but I'm definitely not staying under 50 grams a day, either.

It could very well be that the keto way of eating IS a good thing for some people, but that it takes our bodies a long time to adjust to it so who knows if your symptoms are a result or not. Or if they would go away if you stuck with it until your body chemistry regulated. There are just too many variables involved when eating strict keto, and not enough known about it. My doctor was strongly against it, BUT my blood test numbers all looked good from eating that way, so who knows?
Sue

[ankietyjoe]

The struggle (with keto) is real. I love and hate that way of eating. About 30 years ago I did a strict Atkins Diet (long before "low carb" was popular) and I never felt better. I did it for 9 months, and then started having a strange medical symptom (skin related) that none of the doctors could figure out, and since no one knew much about low carb back then, they all chalked it up to my way of eating, so I gave it up and started eating like everyone else.

Then a few years ago when I remembered how great I felt doing low carb, I learned all I could about the keto way of eating and followed it strictly. I lost weight and usually felt great, but there were days when I would feel pretty bad (either mentally, physically, or both) and I would wonder if it was diet-related. If I posted on the keto forum, of course they would insist it was NOT caused by the diet, or they would tell me what additional supplements and vitamins and minerals I needed to add to my diet. I never could figure out if any of it were true, and you really shouldn't be haphazardly throwing new vitamins and supplements at your body without knowing for sure your body NEEDS them, so there were side affects from those, interactions with my medications, etc. In the end, I went with "moderation is the key" and stopped doing strict keto and added back in some carbs. I still try to limit them as much as possible, but I'm definitely not staying under 50 grams a day, either.

It could very well be that the keto way of eating IS a good thing for some people, but that it takes our bodies a long time to adjust to it so who knows if your symptoms are a result or not. Or if they would go away if you stuck with it until your body chemistry regulated. There are just too many variables involved when eating strict keto, and not enough known about it. My doctor was strongly against it, BUT my blood test numbers all looked good from eating that way, so who knows?
Sue

I think I can concur with this.

What I did notice is that I peeing like a fire engine for the first week, which would tally with the idea that you are losing electrolytes quickly (the same way you would if you were training hard for long periods of time, or running long distances). My ketone strips were showing a rapid increase in ketones on Saturday morning, but by about 7pm I felt very 'off'. In the way that you are hyper vigilant when you have suffered with anxiety before. I wasn't experiencing anxiety, but my heart rate was just gradually getting faster and faster, and by 11pm is was a steady 100bpm+

Now at this point, I began to feel uncomfortable as I can tell when it's cognitive, and when my body has just had enough. This was a physical response, for sure. By 2am it was pounding at 120bpm, and this is where I started eating bananas etc to break the ketosis. I still had a pounding heart for another 11-12 hours or so, but it did come down gradually.

Interestingly, going back to what I whitter on about in other peoples posts, I'm still feeling it a couple of days later. My body effectively went into high alert, and it'll probably take a week or so to come down from it.

Like you, I've gone back to counting carbs rather than severely restricting them, keeping it well below 100g day, keeping an eye on calories and keeping food quality high. But this is another example of recovery often slipping down WAY faster than you can climb out again.

I'm going to give my CNS a break for a week or two and then try keto again, but this time taking much more care over the electrolytes, as I do believe that is what the issue was. Not because the human body MUST have these chemicals all the time, rather that the transition away from a high carb (relatively unnatural) diet has side effects. You really are experiencing a form of withdrawal when you come off refined carbs.

[DustingMyselfOff]

You do know that most people suffer with the "Keto Flu" for a few weeks after starting, right? And yes, you have to pump the electrolytes when you're eating low carb. Some of the people on the forum suggest drinking pickle juice but I never could quite figure out why. Instead I used to carry little tiny salt packets with me at all times and when I started feeling light-headed or off, I would let the salt disolve on my tongue and I'd feel better within minutes. I happened to be at a pet store and overheard some people talking about the keto diet and joined in. One of them was saying he was on day 10 and didn't think he could take much more of the Keto Flu and I handed him one of my packets of salt. He poured it on his tongue and swallowed it and said he was feeling so much better within minutes.

If you don't already have a favorite keto forum, go here, lot's of good information: https://www.ketogenicforums.com/

Sue

[ankietyjoe]

Oh yes, I had the keto flu symptoms as well such as fatigue, headaches etc. This was just an out of the blue episode of prolonged tachycardia. I'm assuming it's an electrolyte issue, but I guess it's possible that my body was sensing a 'stress' for too long and just decided it had had enough.

Will take a look at the forums, thanks.

[WorryRaptor]

As somebody who tried keto for a while, it messed with my heart quite a bit. At first it was great, but then I had runs of SVT, with my heart jumping up to 140 just from shifting on a chair, or stretching. One time I came home from a walk, sat down to take off my hiking boots and it shot up to 150. My ectopic beats increased bigtime, and the last check-up on my liver showed it was fattier, even though I was a healthy weight and a non drinker. Going out of balance with electrolytes was probably the cause of my heart stuff, even though I was doing everything I could to replenish them (in the safest way I could). As for my liver, I'm not entirely sure, but I didn't want to risk hurting it more.

Once I stopped the diet, things calmed down somewhat. My system was just too sensitive for it I suppose.

I see some people absolutely thrive on it, while others have the worst time!