Me again

[Carys]

Can you make it bigger by poking and prodding - absolutely you can. Your repetitive actions can cause inflammation/scar tissue. I am aware I am sounding in the above post like I am losing patience - I will admit that I am somewhat. You have posted here so many times about breast cancer, and still you do nothing to help yourself or follow advice. You must have started at least a dozen threads after BC, maybe more, with the first few Breast-related ones in 2014. That is 5 years, 5 years of consistently returning to obsession over breast lumps - or in this case, lack of them. As someone who has had BC, I have tried to advise and reassure, but still you come back having learnt nothing from the previous HA spiral.

[herbie73]

I know carys but it's like it's an addiction I can't let go of, I tried really hard today which was fine while I was at work and then bam as soon as I got home I spent 10 minutes checking and freaking myself out, this fear has gone on for far to long, and i think deep down i know it's normal but my head wont let me think it, i do have ocd as well of ha, i learnt this behaviour as a child my mum was always scared of cancer and still is and she is 65 and healthy she hasn't had a smear for 27 years and she's never had a mammogram for fear of being told she has cancer so you can see where it comes from, i do go for regular smears because i make myself, alot of my family are afraid of drs hospitals and test, so what chance do i have, just live in fear for the test of my life☹xxxx

[Carys]

Everybody has a back-story, everybody has experiences that have affected them...but as an adult you have a choice to 'live in fear the rest of your life' or not. WHy do you give in so easily to your need to check ? I mean why, why not distract yourself, ban yourself, show some will-power.

You write as if you aren't in charge of your behaviours and 'your head'. Your head/brain are yours, you can control how it responds by working at it. Positive self-talk would be a good start. As for the 'addiction element', its a habit that you have woven into your life by allowing yourself to do it. Every single day you waste time (and yes it is a waste of time, as you can tell NOTHING about your breast health by checking multiple times daily) so now its time to rationalise this behaviour - it will put you MORE AT RISK by checking the way you are. You are actually doing the opposite to your Mum and family, she avoided doctors, checking and screening and you are going majorly over-board to a vastly unhealthy level. Both ends of the spectrum are damaging - yours because of the effect on your mental health, your Mum because if she does get a cancer she will find out too late for treatment. Everyone is scared of cancer, it is frightening but nobody needs to be poking and prodding their body 24/7 to see if they have it.

There is an issue here, and this is my opinion from generally observing your posts on this forum and on another. You view yourself as a 'victim' often, and write as if you have no power yourself to make changes. You often write out 'HA' as if it is something you have caught, that has a life of its own and makes you do things. The wording is often interesting, as those who make good recoveries from HA realise they have power and personal control over the condition.

[herbie73]

Carys I think it's unfair to say I lable myself as a victim that is far from the truth, I apologise for having a mental illness that does flare up every now and then and I feel the need to seek reassurance, i know my actions are damaging but when i am deep in ha and ocd i find it extremely difficult to rationalise things, I'm sorry if this is testing your patients , I probably would test my own if it wasn't me with the issue, I'm honestly thinking about not checking at all anymore some drs say it makes no difference to catching cancer early and it causes unnecessary grief and anxiety, I know many women who don't check and they seem absolutely fine, anyway sorry for being annoying xx

[Carys]

Well, Herbie, I'm saying it as that is how I've seen it it over many posts and on a different forum (on that other forum this same attitude was commented on also, that you don't seem to do anything to help yourself). I am referring to your style of posting, not that you have directly labelled yourself as a victim, things are often written as if 'HA is in control of you' rather than you having control of your HA/mental health. I am referring here to a seeming 'helplessness' and lack of ability or resolution to actually make changes to your behaviours - with comments such as 'what chance do I have', 'I've had a bad experience with my mother thats why I'm like this', 'I should stop but I can't its an addicition', 'I'll live the rest of my life in fear' 'Its not my fault, I have OCD'. That is what I mean about the 'victim' comment and there are lots more examples I could find. Even your thread titles and first posts mirror that style - 'This illness is awful', 'I am bored of having HA', 'Its awful to be afflicted' type of stuff. You aren't alone in this style, there are plenty of others who bemoan things and don't seem to have motivation to take advice and break out of the 'inability to rationalise things' and work really hard on doing so.

There is nobody you should apologise to here, you should apologise to yourself as it is you who is suffering. Do you think I haven't had your problem ? Yes, I have OCD and have had in the past horrific HA, I was hospitalised because of it 30 years ago. I know that recovery takes significant changes in attitude and recognising what is contributing to your lack of progress is important - and it was for that reason that I brought about your 'victim' posting style. So, was I being unfair by trying to point out your self-perpetuating HA behaviours and thought processes, no I think I was being fair. Reassurance from others achieves nothing, especially when you are checking non-stop all day, what on earth could we say that would be meaningful about a part of your breast ? What could we say that hasn't been said over the whole 5 years of your BC fear threads ? They would be hollow words. Being able to reassure yourself and learning from all these past threads should be possible.

I have had your worst fear, I have had BC and live with not knowing if it will return, but I have tried over many threads to remind you of the skills to rationalise. I have to rationalise most days. All you come back with is

I apologise for having a mental illness that does flare up every now and then and I feel the need to seek reassurance

See, there we go again, putting the 'I have a mental illness that flares up', making reasons and excuses for why you will never break free of this.

As for the not checking at all (why have you swung from the idea of obsessive checking to no checking ever?)- no idea where you got that message from that 'cancer caught early makes no difference'. In actual fact your last statement is complete non-sense. It is actually a critical part of all cancers that they are caught as early as possible, the earlier they are caught the better your chances of effective treatment and lack of secondary cancers. It saves lives catching cancers at very early stages, hence why there are so many screening programmes. If I had have not checked and taken action, I possibly would be dead now.

I won't comment on your thread any further you will be probably pleased to hear. I will say two final things though, if you come here year after year simply seeking more and more reassurance then you are certainly not helping yourself and things will never change. I did a cursory check of your posts about Breast Cancer, and since December 2014, there are 29 threads you started devoted to a belief you have breast cancer. There are elements in your other threads too. However, there are also threads where you have asked for advice on how to tackle some negative elements of HA, maybe its time to go back and read them ?

[pulisa]

Well said, Carys. It's the truth, Herbie, and far more use to you than copious tea and sympathy posts. It's up to you as to whether you want to take these words on board.

[herbie73]

Bit harsh

[pulisa]

The truth can seem "harsh" if you don't want to hear it but Carys is extremely knowledgeable on BC as a result of actually having it and she is giving you very valuable advice and the benefit of her experience with HA and how to best manage it. She could have fobbed you off but she didn't-she has spent loads of time trying to help you and guide you through the quagmire. It's the best possible advice and a route out of your obsession. Please at least try to accept what she has said? It's not easy but you are not a victim and you have a choice in that you can get better if you truly want to.

[herbie73]

I really do appreciate all of the advice carys has given me and I'm sorry she wont be replying anymore as I do take on board alot of what she has said, I know I need to help myself I really do and as of today I refuse to let ha or ocd take anymore of my time, I know it wont be easy but I truly have had enough of worrying checking asking for reassurance, I need to kick this pathetic behaviour up the a##e once and for all, most of my worries have been over things that have been there forever or for years which is completely ridiculous, sometimes its like my mind gets a block and it forces me to forget this is a normal part of me, crazy I know, when I look back at my post I'm genuinely embarrassed of some of the thing I have worried about.

Anyway if you do read this carys thank you for your advice it has been valuable and I'm sorry that you wont be replying to me anymore.

Once again thank you xxx

[Carys]

HI again Herbie,

You have always have been polite and genuinely grateful for replies, I appreciate that, but those replies you mostly want are simply reassurance (from me and others) and that transitory relief shows no signs of having made any difference to you long-term. I only think advice can be valuable if the person at least tries to adopt some of the themes in the advice given, and I've not seen evidence of that so far. I know you feel affronted by my up-front approach Herbie, and it has challenged you, but seeing you going over the same themes for 5 years and no further on in combating them (e.g. coming straight home from work and checking breasts again despite being given that information) made it clear to me that you needed to be told in a far more direct way or you could be here in another 5 years going over the same things, and seemingly having learnt nothing from the previous 5 years. The many posts over the last 5 years contain ideas, information and advice which must have information to help you move forward, why not look back at some of them today or when you have time ? I am pleased that you seem to want to at least accept that this current cycle is futile, but accepting that won't be enough, actually doing 'homework' from therapists or free on-line resources or even working hard using self-help books will be tough but could give you back a more rational way to process fears. These habits have become a normal part of you and your life, and that all needs to counter-acted and reversed. THis could take some time, maybe as long as you have been reenforcing those negative thought-processes. One simple way you could try to counteract your fear is by looking back at your posts over the years - when you think you have BC AGAIN, or bowel cancer or uterine cancer, look back at your posts from years ago. You will see that you are talking about the same symptoms and same themes - and you can clearly say to yourself 'but last time, it wasnt what I feared, so....'.

HA has taken your time and happiness Herbie, you are right, and one thing that having had cancer taught me is that life is fragile, medics are angels, hope is abundant, nobody knows what could happen tomorrow and life is for living. You have lived 5 years believing you could have breast cancer (and other serious illnesses) 5 years where you haven't had breast cancer. If you ever were to be unlucky enough to get it, I can only reassure you that you would 'know' if something was wrong and wouldn't be saying 'is it, isn't it, I don't know if its right or not....', providing you are doing MONTHLY checks. People who are vigilant at that level are plenty vigilant enough. I had to stop myself checking like you after BC, not as regular as you but once every day and my surgeon told me that I was actually putting myself at risk by doing that.

I do hope you find the power within yourself to finally find some keys to unlock your mental health problems.