Anxious about what???

[pulisa]

This is ridiculously rare, and once looked into almost always has a chemical cause, or trauma. As I've mentioned, trauma is a different kind of mental health issue.

It surprises me that there is so much resistance to the idea that you're NOT hard wired for anxiety and it's NOT a normal way of being for the vast majority of the population. The idea that your lifestyle is causing you stress means that you actually have control over it.

On another note, I have a friend who attended and eventually helped run a meditation retreat in Thailand where people were allowed to go and reconnect with themselves. It's basically a simple life, food from the local forest and the retreats farm, early starts, early to bed, lots of meditation and lots of exercise. Their success rate in treating anxiety and depression has be virtually 100% for over 40 years. The issue is, this works over months, not days.

Honestly, you'd think I was selling snake oil.

And no, it's not THE kebab, it's the layers of subtle stress. I think I've made that point several times.

I'd be stressed out having to shell out all that money to go to a retreat for months on end though. It's not really a practical solution particularly if you have commitments.

[ankietyjoe]

Joe, serious question: do you have any references to back this up? I'd be happy to be proven wrong here since it's not something I've researched in any detail beyond BBC3 documentaries, but I'd still like to see evidence.

It's just information I've picked up over the years. When I first had anxiety I got a course of CBT from the GP which helped, but then after that it was anti depressants or nothing. I wanted to know why this was happening to me.

And this is the bit that's important...why? Are we really trying to say that vast percentages of the people alive today are just 'destined' to have anxiety because of genetics, or is it more likely that it's what we're doing that's causing the issues? It has taken a little over one or two human lifespans to completely change the way we live and interface with the planet we live on. Before that not much really changed for thousands of years. You can look all this stuff up!

This topic come up on another forum

https://revivre.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=22478

A lot is stuff talked about but diet ain't one of them

Born anxious
Anxious parents
Alkie parent
Sex or violent abuse as kid
Broken family
Traumatic events to person
Witnessing a tragedy
Poverty and low status compare to your peers
Crap environment
Bereavement
After long illness
Gust of wind

Anything can set this shit off. It ain't the event it's how yous react to it. Great if you get a positive reaction. Some folk is just destined to suffer and we are part of that group

No, some people are not destined to suffer, and most of what you're listing there is trauma, which is not the same as GAD.

I respect Joe's stuff here he's one of the gurus but he never knew that pregabalin was used for anxiety which left me a bit gobsmacked

Why would I know?

I've never taken anti depressants and never will, it's not the way I choose to deal with this. As a side note I am in regular contact with 2 psychiatrists and 3 psychotherapists, the team that look after my partner who has complex PTSD and DID. Out of those 5 people, 4 of them claim that anti depressants have very little effect on long term recovery, although can be used as a crutch whilst the real work is done.

I'd be stressed out having to shell out all that money to go to a retreat for months on end though. It's not really a practical solution particularly if you have commitments.

That's why I said 'the problem is'. However, that issue doesn't negate the effectiveness of the treatment, and surely further highlights the issue with the way we have to live these days?

[BlueIris]

So, no evidence of people in more remote communities suffering from lower rates of mental health problems?

Sorry if this seems confrontational; I don't doubt that the conventional western lifestyle has a part to play in making things worse, but everything I've seen (from a very brief look, admittedly) suggests that smaller, more remote communities actually suffer from higher levels of mental ill-health.

[ankietyjoe]

I'm not talking about remote communities that still live the way we do, I'm talking about those that live off the land, the tribal forest dwellers etc.

All I'm doing is passing on information I've learned over the years, as somebody who doesn't suffer from panic any more, and as somebody who sometimes experiences anxiety and assesses the triggers.

If I don't have evidence, it's because I didn't think to write down my sources as I went along my journey the last ten years.

If I could urge you to research two things, the first would be the relationship between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. This will illustrate how what we do and how we live can cause anxiety and stress to build up over the years. The second would be the relationship between what we eat, how that affects our gut, and how our gut health can affect our mental health. There is plenty of information out there.

[BlueIris]

Joe, I do believe you, however, I think it's one part of a bigger puzzle. The honest truth is that the communities you describe are so rare these days that their rates of mental illness haven't been adequately reported.

This is very different from the retreats you describe.

[ankietyjoe]

Joe, I do believe you, however, I think it's one part of a bigger puzzle. The honest truth is that the communities you describe are so rare these days that their rates of mental illness haven't been adequately reported.

This is very different from the retreats you describe.

The retreats mimic that lifestyle, and that's the point of them. The retreats aren't creating an unnatural state, they are recreating the way that people used to live...most of the time. Get up, farm, work, eat, shit it's dark....sleep. Etc.

Now, something else to consider here too. Your body is basically a system of mental and hormonal habits. Your entire system adapts to its environment. When people arrive at the situation where they have an anxiety disorder, it's most likely that it took them months or years to get there, the issue being very few see it coming. Because busy and tired is 'normal'...right?

What's required is a complete change in not only what we do and how we think, but also the requirement is to do that for a very long time. It's not enough to eat veg for three days and proclaim it ineffective. If you were 3 stone overweight, you would accept that it would probably take you a year or more to lose that weight properly, and get fit again. However, when it comes to mental health, most people try something for a couple of days and then just assume it doesn't work. My take on that is anxiety creates a sense of urgency that requires an immediate fix, but the real magic comes with acceptance. That allows you the breathing space to persist with the long term work.

[Mrsmitchell1984]

Acceptance-do you mean the same as CLAIRE Weekes puts forward?

And in the western world, we look down or disagree with anxiety/ too much adrenaline?

[ankietyjoe]

I haven't read the Claire Weekes books, but I would imagine she promotes the same theory.

Accepting your anxiety and not trying to run from it or elevate it's status. When you have a panic attack, just let it be, let it happen. It will end, because it always does etc.

[Mrsmitchell1984]

I don’t suffer with panic attacks but I have GAD so it’s always here and I find it very uncomfortable. Did you have that and you worked on it/overcome it?

[Mrsmitchell1984]

Just feeling ok edge all the time, affecting sleep, cannot relax, jittery, shaking