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Thread: Carnivores diet

  1. #21
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    If there was a magic, one-size fits all diet that made everyone lose weight healthy, then all dieticians would agree on it. But it doesn't exist yet. However, dieticians do agree on many things: lower your fat intake, especially saturated fat; pick your carbs carefully; avoid fast-food and processed foods; etc. like Joe said.

    But I think the other really important thing we can't forget here is TO CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE STARTING A NEW DIET.

    Here's a horror story to emphasize my point if the capital letters didn't do it. One of my neighbors, a fit man in his 50s, decided to go on the Keto diet with his wife and daughter. That's a no carb diet with major emphasis on proteins. Three months later, he was in the hospital for pancreatitis. Why? Turns out because of the drastic way that he cut carbs his body wasn't burning fat, but it was burning his muscle. When his muscles were burning, they released a bunch of triglycerides into his body and that caused his pancreas to inflame. He was in the hospital for three weeks, and he's still on a liquid diet.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by AntsyVee View Post
    If there was a magic, one-size fits all diet that made everyone lose weight healthy, then all dieticians would agree on it. But it doesn't exist yet. However, dieticians do agree on many things: lower your fat intake, especially saturated fat; pick your carbs carefully; avoid fast-food and processed foods; etc. like Joe said.

    But I think the other really important thing we can't forget here is TO CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE STARTING A NEW DIET.

    Here's a horror story to emphasize my point if the capital letters didn't do it. One of my neighbors, a fit man in his 50s, decided to go on the Keto diet with his wife and daughter. That's a no carb diet with major emphasis on proteins. Three months later, he was in the hospital for pancreatitis. Why? Turns out because of the drastic way that he cut carbs his body wasn't burning fat, but it was burning his muscle. When his muscles were burning, they released a bunch of triglycerides into his body and that caused his pancreas to inflame. He was in the hospital for three weeks, and he's still on a liquid diet.
    I need to nitpick a couple of things here. Firstly, the low fat diet is not healthy at all, and saturated fats (as it turns out) aren't an issue. The big, big issue is processed vegetable oils, not just hydrogenated ones.

    Secondly, keto isn't zero carb, it's low carb. Keto also isn't specifically high protein, it's just some people do it that way. There are literally millions of people doing keto without issue, but millions of people are also doing the standard high carb diet with plenty of issues.

    Again, not trying to sway a diet one way or the other as I didn't get on well with keto myself, but it's not an inherently dangerous way of eating.

  3. #23
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    I need to nitpick a couple of things here. Firstly, the low fat diet is not healthy at all, and saturated fats (as it turns out) aren't an issue. The big, big issue is processed vegetable oils, not just hydrogenated ones.

    Secondly, keto isn't zero carb, it's low carb. Keto also isn't specifically high protein, it's just some people do it that way. There are literally millions of people doing keto without issue, but millions of people are also doing the standard high carb diet with plenty of issues.

    Again, not trying to sway a diet one way or the other as I didn't get on well with keto myself, but it's not an inherently dangerous way of eating.
    No, it's not a dangerous way of eating. It was just dangerous to my neighbor (and I don't know if he did the diet correctly or not) because he didn't check with his doctor first. That was my whole point: CHECK WITH YOUR DOC FIRST BEFORE GOING ON ANY NEW DIET.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Many thanks to you both, that's very helpful. I'll confess it never occurred to me to speak with my GP first, he is due to phone me on Tuesday for a medication review. I might mention it then but I'm thinking he will tell my to make an appt. Does it matter that I'm not eating too much that's different, just less of it? For example today - porridge for breakfast, apple orange and banana with cup of tea for lunch, baked beans (no added sugar) on two slices of wholemeal bread for tea. Maybe a couple of bags of mixed salad this evening.

    Joe, yes the mirtazapine is a nightmare for cravings. It affects me very much like alcohol does, or did as I rarely drink now. I'm on the mirt with venlafaxine too and find it very effective for depression. But the carb cravings are the price I pay. The brisk walking includes some steep inclines so I'm usually building up a sweat. One street in particular, when I first started the walking a year ago I barely got to the top. It's a lot easier now despite my weight.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by fishman65 View Post
    Many thanks to you both, that's very helpful. I'll confess it never occurred to me to speak with my GP first, he is due to phone me on Tuesday for a medication review. I might mention it then but I'm thinking he will tell my to make an appt. Does it matter that I'm not eating too much that's different, just less of it? For example today - porridge for breakfast, apple orange and banana with cup of tea for lunch, baked beans (no added sugar) on two slices of wholemeal bread for tea. Maybe a couple of bags of mixed salad this evening.

    Joe, yes the mirtazapine is a nightmare for cravings. It affects me very much like alcohol does, or did as I rarely drink now. I'm on the mirt with venlafaxine too and find it very effective for depression. But the carb cravings are the price I pay. The brisk walking includes some steep inclines so I'm usually building up a sweat. One street in particular, when I first started the walking a year ago I barely got to the top. It's a lot easier now despite my weight.
    What I would say about what you're eating at the moment is that you're spiking insulin almost all day. Everything you're eating with the exception of the salad is relatively high carb.

    Do you think you're able to cut out breakfast and start increasing the hours you are fasting every day? I found that it was only tricky for the first 3-4 days and then became second nature. I can regularly go to 2-4pm before I start eating for the day now and don't miss food at all. It's not about eating less calories as much as it is keeping insulin levels down.

    If you can, I would start your days food with the salad at lunchtime, or maybe something like eggs, avocado, a little bacon, some salad. Anything that skips the carbs. Try and keep to whole foods if you can, meat and two veg type of thing to make is easier.

    I quickly ran your daily food diary through chronometer (a very useful nutritional web/app resource) and it's coming up at around 200g carbs. Not terrible, but I would try and keep it under 100g/day if you can, and what carbs you do eat make them whole carbs, this means no bread unfortunately.

    What I found is that the less carbs I eat, the less I want. And like you IF I eat them, I get the cravings at night. That's what I find almost impossible to resist.

  6. #26
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by fishman65 View Post
    Many thanks to you both, that's very helpful. I'll confess it never occurred to me to speak with my GP first, he is due to phone me on Tuesday for a medication review. I might mention it then but I'm thinking he will tell my to make an appt. Does it matter that I'm not eating too much that's different, just less of it? For example today - porridge for breakfast, apple orange and banana with cup of tea for lunch, baked beans (no added sugar) on two slices of wholemeal bread for tea. Maybe a couple of bags of mixed salad this evening.
    If you forget all the diet plans out there it will always boil down to the most basic issue - in vs out. Reducing what you eat is a good first step without going all in on one of the many plans out there that aim to change everything. Reducing portion size will stop you adding as much weight straight away and if you using more than you are taking in you will steadily start to lose weight. Diets are yo-yo's, it's lifestyle change that is more important.

    Then you can look at what you are eating. More protein is good because it will keep you fuller and some proteins take longer to digest like the milk in your porridge. Porridge is also excellent for heart health.

    Resistance training is good but no so much for weight loss. If you are doing it hard enough to have the "afterburn effect" then it will mean raising your metabolic rate for much longer after you stop than aerobic exercise does. But otherwise resistance is 2nd place to cardio in terms of calories burned. But it is good for men as we get older because we lose our muscle (and this burns fat), strengthens our bones, will keep us looking more in shape as muscle will be better spread as less tendency for fat stores to be drooping (lie on the chest) and it will increase testosterone which falls with age. Any muscle added will help to lose calories and this means eating enough protein to achieve it or you won't any.

    Exercise will also increase your Basal Metabolic Rate (MBR) which means sitting you will be burning more calories than you would of before you when you weren't in shape.

    If you want to delve into the specifics of carb vs protein then there is plenty out there but I would be sceptical of the sites with the claims about how everyone solves their health problems. But there is nothing wrong with experimenting to find what works.

    Depends on your goals too. To get back into shape none of these types of diets are needed but the basics to achieve it are. And be wary of BMI as it's often nonsense, it's your waist measurement that counts...and it's the true waist and not where they make all our trousers to fit these days (think Stan & Olly trousers!).
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  7. #27
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    If you forget all the diet plans out there it will always boil down to the most basic issue - in vs out. Reducing what you eat is a good first step without going all in on one of the many plans out there that aim to change everything. Reducing portion size will stop you adding as much weight straight away and if you using more than you are taking in you will steadily start to lose weight. Diets are yo-yo's, it's lifestyle change that is more important.

    Then you can look at what you are eating. More protein is good because it will keep you fuller and some proteins take longer to digest like the milk in your porridge. Porridge is also excellent for heart health.

    Resistance training is good but no so much for weight loss. If you are doing it hard enough to have the "afterburn effect" then it will mean raising your metabolic rate for much longer after you stop than aerobic exercise does. But otherwise resistance is 2nd place to cardio in terms of calories burned. But it is good for men as we get older because we lose our muscle (and this burns fat), strengthens our bones, will keep us looking more in shape as muscle will be better spread as less tendency for fat stores to be drooping (lie on the chest) and it will increase testosterone which falls with age. Any muscle added will help to lose calories and this means eating enough protein to achieve it or you won't any.

    Exercise will also increase your Basal Metabolic Rate (MBR) which means sitting you will be burning more calories than you would of before you when you weren't in shape.

    If you want to delve into the specifics of carb vs protein then there is plenty out there but I would be sceptical of the sites with the claims about how everyone solves their health problems. But there is nothing wrong with experimenting to find what works.

    Depends on your goals too. To get back into shape none of these types of diets are needed but the basics to achieve it are. And be wary of BMI as it's often nonsense, it's your waist measurement that counts...and it's the true waist and not where they make all our trousers to fit these days (think Stan & Olly trousers!).
    I will have to slightly disagree with you on two points here Terrence old bean.

    1) It's not as simple as calories in/out. The insulin issue is the driving force behind losing or gaining weight as it dictates what the body does with those calories. This is widely documented and soon to become part of NHS weight loss and diabetes treatment. FM65's diet of regular carb heavy meals is the ideal eating plan to make weight loss more difficult.

    2) Resistance training is ideal for weight loss as increased muscle mass is directly responsible for raising the BMR, as well as re-balancing some of the hormonal issues that mirtazipine seems to promote.

    But I agree 100% that BMI is an irrelevant statistic as it showed me as being obese with a body fat close to 12%. I once had abs.....

  8. #28
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    I will have to slightly disagree with you on two points here Terrence old bean.

    1) It's not as simple as calories in/out. The insulin issue is the driving force behind losing or gaining weight as it dictates what the body does with those calories. This is widely documented and soon to become part of NHS weight loss and diabetes treatment. FM65's diet of regular carb heavy meals is the ideal eating plan to make weight loss more difficult.

    2) Resistance training is ideal for weight loss as increased muscle mass is directly responsible for raising the BMR, as well as re-balancing some of the hormonal issues that mirtazipine seems to promote.

    But I agree 100% that BMI is an irrelevant statistic as it showed me as being obese with a body fat close to 12%. I once had abs.....
    You know more about the diet side than I do. I've tended to work more on intake from the position of muscle gain.

    1) True, but like I said - at the most basic level. You don't have to get into the complexities of insulin to lose weight. It's a question of how far you want to take your dieting. If someone doesn't want to eliminate things they can get so far with portion control but yes at some point that will stall out and they will need to consider the makeup of their diet. So, starting place or for those who don't want to get into more dedicated food management but it will come with the drawbacks you have mentioned throughout whether slowing down results or not feeling as good physical & mentally as you might.

    2) I agree and I'm not disputing that but considering the basics of calories expended by activity. If you want to burn more per hour resistance training needs some researching to get it right. But weight training increases muscle, providing you dose the protein correctly, which has an effect on calories burned. And testosterone increases will help. It's interesting to see how much we use by our daily activities rather than think purely in terms of the gym. If fishman starts lugging his shopping up that hill it's a workout.

    I've not been within BMI for years. I need to lose a few pounds yet to get my waist down but if I go by BMI it's more like 10+. Of course, I could simply waste away my muscle to have a nurse say well done you are under BMI yet I would be more unhealthy and still have the same % of fat! Abs, what are they? Don't worry, Joe, we've all got stonking abs...just under a load of flab Muscular tension does have it's upsides!
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  9. #29
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Thanks again guys for the input. Mrs F has seen one of her friends today who has given her Slimming World literature. Of course this is a diet plan rather than lifestyle change. However on perusing the info there are some very successful weight loss stories as you might expect. They use a system of free foods and others that carry 'syns'. You are allowed a fixed number of syns per day. It all looks very appealing though mentions nothing about carbs, proteins etc. This is a massive industry isn't it, weight loss. The amount of websites that come up on google rivals porn sites, not that I look for the latter of course

    The main stumbling block I can see arising is the fact Mrs F can't have too much fibre on account of her crohns disease. She wants us to do this diet together which of course I do too but I'm predicting clashes over meals.

    OK my dinner this evening. Four Asda 'extra special' chilli sausages, two boiled eggs and watercress, wild rocket and spinach mixed salad. Yes I know the sausages are processed meat but I've totted up the calorie count to 1888 today. Porridge for breakfast, I just love it but tomorrow the SW diet begins in earnest.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    I would avoid slimming world to be honest. These commercial diets rely on calorie restriction that isn't sustainable and a reliance on not educating yourself on good, healthy food. Their long term success rates are extraordinarily low......but that's what they want. It's a business.

    You said it yourself, it's an industry, which relies on not removing it's customers by curing them of obesity. Weight loss stories are all well and good, but when the weight piles back on (and it almost always does) after 6 months, it seems a futile exercise.

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