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Thread: Carnivores diet

  1. #11
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    Dec 2014
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    It's like a vegan's nemesis!

    Getting back to less processed food and less sugar is obviously a good thing but what about veg & fibre? What about calcium (those that won't eat dairy)? It's the opposite of health advice and I am questioning the claims it says your GI is better for it when you are eating things that aren't aimed at helping with that. People thousands of years ago would be eating a combination and not just meat.

    I would agree it's benefits are more about removing heavily processed foods, something which are recent to humans, and cutting back on so many areas that you end up eliminating some bad foods too.

    I have never heard of it so did a quick Google. The first result sounded like every BS product claim out there stating how it solves so many healthy problems and utter nonsense about never feeling hungry or counting macros (healthy eating is all about watching what you eat or you end up overeating and putting weight on with bowls of salad every day if they are bin lid sized). Like the bogus claims found in paleo I guess.
    Ohhh... I have a mate who seems to lap up every fad diet like this and he now seems to proclaim himself an expert on T2 diabetes as a result because it's helped a couple of his mates. He's also convinced that statins kill everybody who take them, grains are very bad for you due to spikes in blood sugar &c. Nearly everything seems to boil down to ketogenic diets; get rid of the carbs and make the cells take nutrition from fat.

    Trouble is... there's this thing called ketoacidosis. To me, diets like this are akin to playing Russian Roulette with your body, with potentially the same outcome.

    And one other way of proving if something's of dubious merit: does its advocate try and sell you something?

  2. #12
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamplemousse View Post

    Trouble is... there's this thing called ketoacidosis. To me, diets like this are akin to playing Russian Roulette with your body, with potentially the same outcome.
    This is not really how it works. Ketoacidosis is only really an issue for those with T1 Diabetes.

    I'm not advocating one way of eating or another, but fearing something because you don't have the facts means you may well be missing out on something that is beneficial.

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/...etosis-vs-dka/

  3. #13
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    Dec 2014
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    211

    Re: Carnivores diet

    Thanks for the link, ankietyjoe - it is however worth noting the caveat about those on an SGLT-2 inhibitor (like myself) which exacerbates the risk of DKA.

    Anybody here remember those VLCDs of about 330 calories a day popular in the early 1980s?

  4. #14
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    The thing about low calorie diets is that it's not a normal or desirable state for the body to be in, whereas ketosis is. Babies (for example) are mostly in ketosis when breast fed. It's a normal state for the body to be able to shift in and out of. At it's most basic level our fat is a fuel store and when food is scarce or carbohydrates are low then insulin is switched off, ketones are switched on and we start burning it as fuel. You're just eating in a way that promotes that state in the body. It's not a fad, it's not a 'hack', it's how we are designed to operate.

    The way I see things is that in the history of humanity dietary intake would have be varied and sporadic. The feast/famine cycle is what we are really adapted to survive with and consequently the body also does a lot of good stuff when we're NOT eating too.

    Your health requirements (the medication) would mean that IF you wanted to try ketosis, then it would have to be under medical supervision, but it doesn't exclude the diet. There are millions of people with diabetes who are safely using ketosis and fasting to reduce and eventually reverse diabetes and the medication associated with it.

    Again, I'm not advocating carnivore/ketosis or any other diet, I'm merely suggesting that it's worth doing your own (exhaustive) research on something before dismissing it as in your case it could be literally life changing, for the better.

  5. #15
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    Dec 2014
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    211

    Re: Carnivores diet

    Well, I'm due a diabetes review next week and I suspect Nurse Ratched won't be happy with my figures. My GP wanted to put me on yet another tablet that ran the very real risk of hypos and I suggested that I would rather give a change of diet for additional weight loss a try (I've got plenty to lose). I might mention this to her and see what she says; but I won't deny the idea of ketogenic diets make me very, very nervous.

    I must confess I also take issue with this notion of "reversing" type 2 diabetes; to me it can only ever be put into remission, unless there is peer-reviewed material that says otherwise.

  6. #16
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    I have two relatives with diabetes and the NHS is trialling fasting and low carb diets as THE cure. We had the nurse tell us that big changes were happening with the treatment of diabetes as the standard medications only mask the issue.

    I think the issue here is the interpretation of cure. The issue being that if you tried keto/fasting to reverse your diabetes, and then return to the normal high carb diet that caused the issue in the first place, did the cure fail, or have you simply re-diabeted(?) yourself?

    The diet we were sold as being correct was high carb and eating all day. We were told to eat lots of whole grains, breads, pasta and eat it several times a day. In that respect your mate is correct, and this way of eating is a disaster. There is plenty of information about this available online if you look. I'm old enough to remember pasta being sold as a health food in the early 90s, which is really quite quaint now to think about it.

    The best place for you to start research might be with Dr Jason Fung and his talks on diabetes, the cause and the cure. The evidence is quite compelling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw61ad-wedo

    Further to this, I joined several low carb/LCHF/Keto groups when I looked at it as a way of eating for myself (I'm not diabetic, but almost certainly pre-diabetic) and there were literally hundreds of people posting results of their HbA1c after weeks/months of dietary change and almost all of them showed reduction or reversal, heavy on the reversal.

    So basically if you reverse your diabetes and then go back to eating the way you used to, you probably will find that it's remission rather than reversal.

    For me the easiest place to start was intermittent fasting, which I found to be particularly effective.

    Can't hurt to try right? The only difficult thing is altering eating habits.

  7. #17
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    Can't hurt to try right? The only difficult thing is altering eating habits.
    Amen to that.

    But when 'comfort' food is your best, and often only friend when you're having a dark day (of which there are many chez Pamplemousse) it is easier said than done. I also get to thinking "I'm 55. Much more of my life is behind me than in front of me. Is it really worth the effort?"

    Intermittent fasting looks like a start. But first I'll need to get access to my cooker, and buy a new fridge.

  8. #18
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    I'm not far behind you age wise, but it's doable.

    Even in terms of mental health alone I've found that eating healthier/less often has been a massive part of staying well. I'm a sucker for a plate of crap, but the majority of my diet is now fresh/whole/organic food. Ideally I'd like it to be all that way, but that's not realistic today....but maybe tomorrow.

    I'm currently addicted to watermelon, of all things.

  9. #19
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    As you guys seem pretty clued up on diet etc I was wondering if you had any advice about the best way to approach this. I've been doing brisk walking for about a year now, round town and climbing the steepest streets. I've lost weight and become fitter or at least it feels that way. However on weighing myself the other day I'm 21st bang on. This totally demoralised me and clearly I've been putting too much faith in the walking while not tackling my food intake. That said I think I'm about 3st lighter than this time last year but still obese. I'm 6ft 3" but have a BMI of about 35 I think.

    I'm on mirtazapine which does make me crave carbs, often in the early hours where I will shovel in anything going. This after eating relatively well during the day. Since finding out how much I weigh still, I've managed to resist the mirtazapine effect. It's been tough but I have to do something otherwise I'll end up another statistic. I'm 54 now and if I don't get my weight down now I never will. I've been counting calories, yesterday added up to 1541, today 600 so far. It's shocking to read the calorific content of some things. Just one blueberry muffin has 292!!
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  10. #20
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    Re: Carnivores diet

    Quote Originally Posted by fishman65 View Post
    As you guys seem pretty clued up on diet etc I was wondering if you had any advice about the best way to approach this. I've been doing brisk walking for about a year now, round town and climbing the steepest streets. I've lost weight and become fitter or at least it feels that way. However on weighing myself the other day I'm 21st bang on. This totally demoralised me and clearly I've been putting too much faith in the walking while not tackling my food intake. That said I think I'm about 3st lighter than this time last year but still obese. I'm 6ft 3" but have a BMI of about 35 I think.

    I'm on mirtazapine which does make me crave carbs, often in the early hours where I will shovel in anything going. This after eating relatively well during the day. Since finding out how much I weigh still, I've managed to resist the mirtazapine effect. It's been tough but I have to do something otherwise I'll end up another statistic. I'm 54 now and if I don't get my weight down now I never will. I've been counting calories, yesterday added up to 1541, today 600 so far. It's shocking to read the calorific content of some things. Just one blueberry muffin has 292!!
    75-80% of weight loss is what you eat, not exercise. Quite frankly, losing 3st just exercising is freaking amazing and as much as you could possibly hope for. Even more so considering you're on mirtazapine (my misses was on that and started putting on weight like crazy).

    I've done both the keto diet and carnivore and in both cases my carb cravings (which I also suffer from) reduced to almost nothings. Refined carbs work in a similar way to any drug, firing pleasure receptors in the brain, but also causing sugar spikes and crashes (the crashes cause the cravings).

    If I were you, I'd carry on doing the walking as that's clearly working for you. I would also try adding some resistance training, doesn't have to be too heavy. But also focus on lowering the carbs from your diet, especially refined carbs like bread, pasta, cakes, muffins etc. Something I also find really useful is intermittent fasting. I never eat breakfast any more and only start eating at lunchtime, and sometimes I don't even have that. I eat all my food in a 4-8 hour window, which has been proven NOT to put your body into starvation mode. It keeps your insulin low for prolonged periods of time meaning that your body is less prone to store fat and more prone to burn it as fuel.

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