Anyone else anxious about this election....

[KK77]

Started under PFI. The interest on that has been killing the NHS for ages.

I do think the NHS needs protecting from forces though and should not be the political football it always has been.

One problem in this election was there was a danger of this whether your voted Tory or Labour. If the US gets it's trade deal into the EU under the same terms as last time, and we are no longer members, it will be up to the EU to give us an opt out of that deal (something no other CU has) when it comes to the clauses about opening up nationalised industries including health (EU states get an opt out...but that won't be us anymore if a 2nd ref voted for Corbyn's CU deal if he didn't get his special opt out that the EU won't allow the other CU's to have). This issue was just ignored in the debate yet was one big reason why we were opposed to TTIP last time.

Better to enshrine some local UK laws to protect it from such agreements so we can't sign up to stuff like that without law change.

Ah yes, but at that time NHS funding was far, far higher and staff were still being recruited, not axed. To reverse the damage in time stated by Tories isn't realistic or viable. We need action right now, this min. And incredible sums of funding. Today.

Thus the inexorable slide into more and more private hands. The sacred NHS cow will become the cash cow. Look at how large chunks of the Welfare State have been sold off. Ditto for education system. Tory ideology has always been to shrink the "State" to the size of a pea.

But at least the banks and large corps will be happy!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Ah yes, but at that time NHS funding was far, far higher and staff were still being recruited, not axed. To reverse the damage in time stated by Tories isn't realistic or viable. We need action right now, this min. And incredible sums of funding. Today.

Thus the inexorable slide into more and more private hands. The sacred NHS cow will become the cash cow. Look at how large chunks of the Welfare State have been sold off. Ditto for education system. Tory ideology has always been to shrink the "State" to the size of a pea.

But at least the banks and large corps will be happy!

Yes, the death by a 1000 cuts was invisible then whereas now it is being actively pushed towards it.

More investment is definitely needed. But change is always good as long as it's aimed at improvement for the service and not paying money to execs, politicians and their "interest groups".

Enshrine protections in law under something that can't be changed by a simple majority (Royal Charter?) and take their motivation away.

Also, bring social welfare into line with health. That has been a mess from the start as private companies get to shaft everyone for poor service and no one in government is listening. Just putting it under one minister is not enough.

For me the question is always at what point do we stop chaser cheaper stuff? Cheaper means cuts, cheaper means less pay, cheaper means companies looking to outsource to cheaper economies. At some point this trend has to halt. Brexit shows this up nicely with the potential for tariffs. But if you want more pay, you pay more for stuff. Companies will always look to pass costs on.

Whilst it has been nice to see less tax or the common man there is a point where it becomes unfeasible. Tax the rich and stop companies underpaying tax but also we have to face the day coming where bribing us with tax reduction won't be possible anymore if we want the services. I'm happy if we put up taxes for health & social care as long as it is ringfenced to actually get there rather get syphoned off or end up being used to pay for management consultants (my experience of these guys is they charge a lot and just write up reports stating what your own staff have been telling you for years).

[KK77]

Yes, the death by a 1000 cuts was invisible then whereas now it is being actively pushed towards it.

More investment is definitely needed. But change is always good as long as it's aimed at improvement for the service and not paying money to execs, politicians and their "interest groups".

Enshrine protections in law under something that can't be changed by a simple majority (Royal Charter?) and take their motivation away.

Also, bring social welfare into line with health. That has been a mess from the start as private companies get to shaft everyone for poor service and no one in government is listening. Just putting it under one minister is not enough.

For me the question is always at what point do we stop chaser cheaper stuff? Cheaper means cuts, cheaper means less pay, cheaper means companies looking to outsource to cheaper economies. At some point this trend has to halt. Brexit shows this up nicely with the potential for tariffs. But if you want more pay, you pay more for stuff. Companies will always look to pass costs on.

Whilst it has been nice to see less tax or the common man there is a point where it becomes unfeasible. Tax the rich and stop companies underpaying tax but also we have to face the day coming where bribing us with tax reduction won't be possible anymore if we want the services. I'm happy if we put up taxes for health & social care as long as it is ringfenced to actually get there rather get syphoned off or end up being used to pay for management consultants (my experience of these guys is they charge a lot and just write up reports stating what your own staff have been telling you for years).

You make good points, Prof T.

But cutting through all the obfuscation and distraction, the one thing that WON'T sadly be addressed adequately is the monstrous inequality in society. We know the poor and vulnerable will as always be hit the hardest - including MH... and that is the tragedy here. Would Labour have changed all that? Perhaps not. But nearly 10 years of Tory "austerity" has reduced many parts of UK society to Third World status.

[MyNameIsTerry]

You make good points, Prof T.

But cutting through all the obfuscation and distraction, the one thing that WON'T sadly be addressed adequately is the monstrous inequality in society. We know the poor and vulnerable will as always be hit the hardest - including MH... and that is the tragedy here. Would Labour have changed all that? Perhaps not. But nearly 10 years of Tory "austerity" has reduced many parts of UK society to Third World status.

True. There is no argument for austerity anymore and sadly the Tory spending is pretty poor.

A strong opposition is really needed. In my limited time voting I always see new governments start out well enough after another party is ousted but after the first 5 years they start to slide into sleaze and mediocrity. It's time for a change in party but sadly that's hard to see right now. I can see a few years form now Boris will have made a mess and everyone is unhappy yet has no one to vote for to boot them out. That lack of threat to them just means the Moggs of the world can laugh all the way to the bank.

The cottage hospitals were excellent. That sell off was going on before New Labour and just continued into Cameron's tenure. And now we have them asking if the public can join schemes to take in strangers because they haven't got any beds because...they closed all the cottage hospitals

(however, Brexit now becomes a lovely big shield for more austerity as the government can point to the economy forecasts to say they need to be cautious. They will sit on their coffers now with the excuse they need to see what happens)

As for mental health, maybe that depends where you are? It was pitiful in my city under Labour in Blair's time. IAPT coming in helped greatly otherwise you waited 12 months to be seen. But then IAPT was a plaster and not a proper attempt at cure. Great if you have mild anxiety, not so great if you don't fit the rigid pathway of x sessions of CBT. I often view IAPT the same way I do a new government unemployment list, a nice way to shift the figures around so it looks good on some ministers report.

[FrankT]

I'd probably say screwed rather than actually doomed. Life may very well be measurably worse, but it will still go on.

No, I think doomed is right. They have no environmental policy.

[MyNameIsTerry]

No, I think doomed is right. They have no environmental policy.

Well, we are signed up to some and aren't we hosting the next big summit soon? Do you mean they put less priority on it than other parties?

[FrankT]

Well, we are signed up to some and aren't we hosting the next big summit soon? Do you mean they put less priority on it than other parties?

Even better, their leader didn't even bother showing up to the climate change debate! They sent an ice sculpture instead.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Even better, their leader didn't even bother showing up to the climate change debate! They sent an ice sculpture instead.

Well if they won't show up I'm all for the HIGN4Y treatment (remember the tub of lard?) Probably makes as much sense as the real thing too...

If only we had had an alternative election special with Spitting Image puppets instead. That I would have watched! At least everyone now has a reason not to invite Jo Swinson