Are we losing the NHS?

[Ssmith]

You can't ignore what's going on and claim it's scaremongering, it's far more sinister than that.

Clinging on to straws like the NHS never being fully privatised don't matter if you're more or less obliged to pay for private health insurance to receive any kind of meaningful care. This IS where things are headed now. I actually know people being advised to look into private options because their GP cannot offer them immediate care. It is their GP saying this.

This IS what Brexit and this election has been about. Imagine what the NHS is worth now, look at the actual numbers being pumped into the NHS. Now imagine it being unregulated and open to jacked up medication and care fees. You're talking hundreds of billions a year.

Things are very, very doom and gloom and sticking your head in the sand is how we've got here in the first place.

Look at how things work in the US, it is not good.

But it is scaremongering a lot of it depending where you look. Having a brief look on Twitter and you see people saying there isn't going to be any NHS at all, you see the hashtag #RIPNHS trending and its gonna get people anxious. I'm not defending the Tories at all, I'm a Labour voter traditionally.

Regarding GPs advising people to look at private options, this has been ongoing for decades. About 15 years ago, I was advised to go private to get a cyst removed because the NHS wouldn't cover it. And don't forget the NHS started privatisation under Labour. The Conservatives have sped it up and it is under massive stress because of many factors.

It doesn't have to be so black and white which a LOT of people are doing. Our health system will never become like Americas and I can say that with a lot of confidence. We've had negotiations with the US regarding pharmaceutical contracts which is what happens with any trade deal/negotiation. Doesn't mean its going to happen

[Phoenixess]

The scariest part is when uninformed NHS nurses and sisters vote Tories but bitch about their shifts, workloads, low pay, etc etc


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[MyNameIsTerry]

But it is scaremongering a lot of it depending where you look. Having a brief look on Twitter and you see people saying there isn't going to be any NHS at all, you see the hashtag #RIPNHS trending and its gonna get people anxious. I'm not defending the Tories at all, I'm a Labour voter traditionally.

Regarding GPs advising people to look at private options, this has been ongoing for decades. About 15 years ago, I was advised to go private to get a cyst removed because the NHS wouldn't cover it. And don't forget the NHS started privatisation under Labour. The Conservatives have sped it up and it is under massive stress because of many factors.

It doesn't have to be so black and white which a LOT of people are doing. Our health system will never become like Americas and I can say that with a lot of confidence. We've had negotiations with the US regarding pharmaceutical contracts which is what happens with any trade deal/negotiation. Doesn't mean its going to happen

I agree with you. I'm a swing voter. I can't see how the Tories can use the current majority to then push all those Labour seats back into any Labour candidates hands by doing this. The question is whether they do it by stealth. Labour have already done some of this themselves and the Tories are running down the clock on it. But prior to today's thinking we have seen the NHS scaled back (in my time) through Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron and then the short termers we've just had. The cottage hospitals were being sold off over decades including when Blair was in (well mine was). Local mental health inpatient units (not hospitals) in my area closed under all of these people. People waited on trollies in corridors in the 80s & 90s and going to A&E was often joked as a sit about for at least 6 hours.

Things are bad for the NHS now but I often feel it's played as never being anything other than excellent. I question whether this is tactical due to younger voters. I'm 43 and can remember all of the this when I was growing up. I can remember seeing hospitals on the news telling us they couldn't cope in winter and A&E's stretched to breaking point threatening closure.

Like you I'm not saying it's a positive now but it's certainly wasn't the wonder system in previous years either. Sit coms and comedians used to have plenty of digs at the NHS for being on a trolley for days in a corridor.

As for GP's advising to go private, yes, it's been like that for many years. It predates Cameron. I've had family that were outsourced to private hospitals for operations before this because of NHS shortages on electives.

I would welcome further protections on the NHS against privatisation. I think the SNP's Ian Blackford is raising something about this at the moment. Remove it from the politcla football it has always been no matter whether red or blue is on which bench.

How about mental health? I had my breakdown when New Labour were in. There was nothing out there for me. Other than my GP and meds there was a 12 month waiting list. Then IAPT came in and at least you can now get some support within a matter of months even if it is geared towards milder cases.

As for the trade deal, that's just business isn't it? Wouldn't the French want their fishermen to be happy and not care they put all of ours on the dole in poverty in the process? Wouldn't we say/do the same?

[MyNameIsTerry]

We're all doomed then. We need another General Election because the ignorant public have been brainwashed by the evil Tories and It's Not Fair!!!!!

Only if we get to call it The People's Vote

[FrankT]

We're all doomed then. We need another General Election because the ignorant public have been brainwashed by the evil Tories and It's Not Fair!!!!!

Brainwashed? No, this was a single-issue election. We wanted the earliest opportunity to go independent and we took it.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Brainwashed? No, this was a single-issue election. We wanted the earliest opportunity to go independent and we took it.

How can we say it was all about Brexit? The only people saying that right now the people who are part of the problem in Labour who won't listen to their own research. Why are Labour voters turning Tory in areas where the Tories have always been despised? I'm in a Labour heartland and it turned blue in 2017 with a narrow margin and now has a thumping majority as of Thursday.

Brexit is part of it. The Labour party got their strategy all wrong and even during the recent campaign Corbyn stated he would not say about FOM until after you voted him in. How many saw this as "a Customs Union plus close alignment with the Single Market plus we will decide to re-open FOM after the GE when you can no longer stop us"? He just banged in another nail in his coffin with that.

Anti Semitism? Some will have been put off by the failings around this. However I question how many dockers in the north or shelf stackers in the midlands give a shite about this? The Tories are well known for having the same views yet they get the vote. This issue is again about metropolitan Labour.

His own MP's have been telling him for years he is unpopular. His personal ratings have been terrible.

Brexit came at the worst time for Corbyn, it completed side-lined his project...or should we say those who are really running the show behind Labour?

Three and half years of arsing about trying to frustrate it. So many people just wanted it done with. If we had another dither & delay party would we end up just thinking just flush the issue away we don't want to hear about it anymore? Isn't that what some of those MP's wanted? So, some may have viewed this as the last chance before they stopped it and never allowed the public a say again?

[tommy1982]

This time of year all health services creek, with flu epidemics , flu season just started,

no great nation on the planet has not got a national health service, so ignore the news.

If your over 65 get a flu jab, or have serious asthma if not you will be fine, flu is horrible
disgusting, but every few years you get a bad one , the terror passes after a few days

[WiredIncorrectly]

The NHS and mental health system was a mess before Brexit.

I visited my local A&E recently after a bout of mental health problems. There were already beds in the corridors and people left waiting in corridors because everywhere was jam packed. My local has had a bad reputation long before Brexit. My previous local was shut down and they replaced it with a huge mega hospital (QE in Birmingham). Before the QE the previous hospital was a complete failure. The QE failed both my Dad and my Stepdad during their Cancer battles and currently battle bed problems. Crazy considering that's a very very big hospital.

It's absolutely not fair to blame the failing of the NHS on Brexit. It's been a failure under every Government. There could be numerous reasons for this. I'm speculating but:

* Increasing population
* Increasing use of drugs and alcohol
* Increasing numbers of people with mental health
* Increasing number of people with Cancer
* Increasing number of people with heart problems
* Increasing use of NHS resources by immigrants (dont slap me with the right wing stick, it's true)
etc.

No doubt a result of decades of pollution, poor diet, poor quality food, lack of clean air, smoking, alcohol, drugs.The system probably can't respond to that quick enough.

[pulisa]

People are living a lot longer now and this puts a huge strain on services. People are encouraged to analyse their mental health and come forward for help if they are experiencing distress in any shape or form which previously would have been attributed to "life"..Obesity is responsible for many orthopaedic conditions requiring surgery..People are apathetic and don't care about their lifestyles but expect the NHS to sort them out when they inevitably get ill..

I still think that there should be a nominal fee to see a GP. Just to sort out the time wasters from the genuinely in need. Obviously with concessions.

[ankietyjoe]

It's absolutely not fair to blame the failing of the NHS on Brexit. It's been a failure under every Government. There could be numerous reasons for this. I'm speculating but:

Actually is it perfectly fair, and accurate.

Your speculations are going to be accurate for a percentage of added pressure, but it is just a small percentage.

As for media scaremongering, my own opinion is based on first hand conversations I've had with several people, and nothing to do with the media (which I generally ignore completely).

2 GP's have told me that unless they start charging for appointments, they will have to close the practice.
1 NHS practice manager has had her funding cut by MORE than 100% over the last ten years.
1 Psychiatrist has had her funding cut every year for the last 5 years.
1 Care worker has seen her team of 15 shrink to a team of 3 over the last 3 years, budget cuts.
The hospital my first child was born at (one of the highest rated in the country) has been closed down, my second child was born in a massively overstretched mega hospital only 5 years later.
When I called for an ambulance in 2015 (panic related) I was told none were available. 10 minutes later a paramedic turned up and told me they can override 999 calls, and I should have had an ambulance turn up in less than 5 minutes. He was concerned enough to take me into A&E although it was obviously nothing. On the journey there (20 minutes, because my local hospital had been shut down, remember?) he told me how massively understaffed they were now due to cut after cut. There is an ambulance station a couple of miles from where I live that's now abandoned almost 24/7. When I moved here in 2006 there would always be half a dozen crewed ambulances outside.
In 2015, I had a bleeding mole on my face. I COULD NOT get a GP appointment sooner than two weeks. They refused to give me an appointment. I HAD to go and get a private GP appointment. I mentioned not being able to get an NHS appointment for this (he also did NHS work) and he said to me outright that this is the way things are going to be right now. The money just isn't there any more.

And finally...the obvious one. If I do manage to get an appointment at my local GP (which is very, very hard these day), when I turn up it's empty. Not heaving at the seams, not full of immigrants.....empty. The last two times I've been there I have been in a waiting room with 30-40 chairs, but only 3-4 people waiting. This is not logically speaking an overstretched surgery, but an underfunded one. There are not staff there to see you, not too many patients.

You guys really need to get your head out of the papers and websites and start asking the questions to whoever you can because it IS being deliberately fvcked with.