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  1. #11
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    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    The self discipline is only practice. I have a long history of having no self discipline at all. It's not innate.
    What Joe said.

    I was plagued by them for so long. Because I let them plague me. I went on some medications that got rid of 70% of my anxiety. I still get panic attacks but they're easier to manage and deal with. When I wasn't medicated I would notice every heartbeat in my body. Every slight skip, or change in pulse, I could physically feel. I'd have these hard thuds that would be like someone punching me from inside my chest. I'd have constant skips and pauses.

    This was because of the anxiety, and my brain was hyper focused on my heart. It's as if you strengthen the neural pathways in your brain that cause you to be literally tune into your heart.

    I still get skips etc. But my focus isn't on them. I honestly think everybody gets these skips and pauses but because they're not in tune with their heart they don't notice or care. Many people don't Google the fk out of everything like we do either. Which further reinforces those pathways in your brain.

    This morning I took a nice stretch and I felt a skip, and another, and then loads more. And then boom, back to normal. Non of those skips bothered me at all. On a scale of 1 to 10 my freakout score was -1.

    I can try link you to some of my posts when I was really bad. I'm proof that you can escape these. Medications helped me. And there's a green off topic that helps me but that's not for everyone. Some people swear by CBD. You've got to find what works.

    Most importantly keep your brain occupied so it's not tuned into your heart. My theory is the neural pathways will be come weaker and you'll soon become out of tune with your heart.

    You have to take the focus away.

    My posts from when I was bad. I've got loads more. But here's some just to show you that things can improve.

    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...-more-to-them!
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...ll-do-anything (went to ER against advice of people here because they know me so well)
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...k-again-Wooot!
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...e-this-anymore
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...crazy-Wtf-lol!
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...voicing-videos
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...them-to-happen
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...-caused-v-tach
    * https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...-(York-Cardio)
    Last edited by WiredIncorrectly; 19-01-20 at 13:03.

  2. #12

    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Dear all,

    I know it has been a long time, but I wanted to thank you for such kind/meaningful support and offer yet another update.

    Sadly, I am not doing much better. If there are any improvements to report, my blood pressure has somewhat stabilized but is still slightly higher than normal on a continual basis. My resting pulse, however, has only been climbing (with ZERO rhyme or reason), and I'm now full-blown tachy nearly every morning upon waking. It stays high all day, and after eating I notice even higher spikes too (I eat very clean and healthy, so let's skip the whole eat better thing - been there, doing that). I've started taking small doses of Propranolol which was prescribed out of desperation, and it's not doing much. My heart pounds in my chest no matter I do while I'm sleeping. It also gives me terrible side effects like headaches, bizarre dreams, and strange pains in my body/extremities. I've also noticed a VERY SCARY and new symptom which has been consistent over the last few weeks. If I use my hands much during the evening, they become EXTREMELY red and hot. Not swollen per se, but bright, cherry red and drastically warm to the touch. My hands have also had a recent history of being blue-ish during the day at points (and my feet). I am not sure if this is Raynaud's or some other peripheral vascular issue at work. I am booking a rheumatologist stat.

    The bizarre patterns seem to follow ONE trend only, which is that I am definitely worse during/right after sleep. A sleep studied has been ordered by my physician, but being 5'11, 145lbs, and in (prior to these almost 2 months now of misery and fear without exercise) athletic shape, I do not fit the profile for apnea much at all. There is a genetic history in my family, so it is possible regardless. My fiance does not report me snoring much (if ever), but I do wake with dry mouth. Better to be safe than sorry I guess, though the doctor is actually more interested in seeing what the EKG during this test will indicate. He is trying to find some kind of trail to lead us to what's facilitating the problems.

    I started CBT/ERP, and I'm optimistic it may help certain aspects of dealing with this scenario. But I'm fearful something more is going on and now the doctors are onboard too it seems.

    I'm going to be very blunt here and say based on my current symptomatic profile (especially considering what the doctors are now seeing/thinking), this is definitely NOT just anxiety. Anxiety is a COMPONENT. It is not the sole actual physiological or bodily mechanism behind what is occurring. I know this isn't the case for most people on here, and I'm happy that they have been given a clean bill of health. Unfortunately, my situation is only exacerbated and followed by panic attacks, not that panic/conscious or unconscious anxiety is actually the primary causality of said feelings.

    I really just wish I could get my life back. I'm literally being tortured by these symptoms on a daily basis. It is not a way to live. Here's to hoping you all are okay.

    Praying things get better and working on whatever I can,

    Jon

  3. #13
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    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1821 View Post

    I'm going to be very blunt here and say based on my current symptomatic profile (especially considering what the doctors are now seeing/thinking), this is definitely NOT just anxiety. Anxiety is a COMPONENT. It is not the sole actual physiological or bodily mechanism behind what is occurring. I know this isn't the case for most people on here, and I'm happy that they have been given a clean bill of health. Unfortunately, my situation is only exacerbated and followed by panic attacks, not that panic/conscious or unconscious anxiety is actually the primary causality of said feelings.
    Yet your symptoms are identical to hundreds of other people here.

    And one thing I know for sure, checking your pulse all the time will keep it high all the time.

    It's very common for people to think that their symptoms are different from other people here too, and that for THEM, it's not just anxiety. 99% of the time, it is anxiety though. Or rather an underlying stress/anxiety response to lots of other things going on in their lives.


    You're also very light for your height. Do you have any problems still with food/eating in combination with over exercising?

  4. #14

    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    Yet your symptoms are identical to hundreds of other people here.

    And one thing I know for sure, checking your pulse all the time will keep it high all the time.

    It's very common for people to think that their symptoms are different from other people here too, and that for THEM, it's not just anxiety. 99% of the time, it is anxiety though. Or rather an underlying stress/anxiety response to lots of other things going on in their lives.


    You're also very light for your height. Do you have any problems still with food/eating in combination with over exercising?
    Joe,

    I appreciate your swift reply and input, as always. I will try to address everything as best as I can.

    First, as far as my eating and exercise is concerned, I weighed about 150-155lbs prior to this whole ordeal. I DID lose weight, but it is NOT from exercise (from the sheer fact I have not exercised now in nearly 2 months - I'm way too afraid and last time I tried any sort of cardio I ended up back in the ER via ambulance with "sinus arrhythmia").

    Yes, there was definitely a time in my life (years ago now) where I did eat too little and overexercise. Going back even farther, there was a period when I was young and a teenager and overeating to the point of being terribly overweight. For about 3 or 4 years now I've been very stabilized, and I've been "thinner" now going back to being 20 or so years of age (I'm 31 now).

    I actually miss exercise very much, as it helped ground me and convince me I was okay. Without pushing my heart daily, it has only helped reaffirm these fears in my mind. And let me be clear here, there ARE fears, but I do think that a TRUE, TANGIBLE organic factor is at play here. Not that anxiety isn't either of those things. YES, I've heard a thousand times about the mind/body connection and whatnot. I believe and agree it is definitely about 50 percent of why I feel so bad. But I also am a cynic. And someone who has been around illness/doctors my whole life. This is deeper. Even my doctors are convinced.

    How do you explain the hot and red hands now? Or the Raynaud's-esque symptoms? How about the fact I go to bed with a pulse of 66-75 only to find myself spiking up to 120-140 throughout the night and in the morning even when I'm at my most relaxed? I can't necessarily buy this is just something in my unconscious mind. I think it would be dangerous for me to assume so. Not when my symptoms are consistent, evident, and varied though inextricably related to similar systems within my body.

    Now that's not to say anxiety hasn't influenced them. Or in part, been a key component in contributing to my general unease which indeed does not help. I concur. It's a vicious cycle.

    I should also mention that about a year ago, I would wake up with similar attacks. Especially shortness of breath. The dyspnea hasn't disappeared, and those attacks went into a remission of sorts prior to the flu and all this trauma. I noticed slight and subtle changes over the course of such time though. And I think they were precursors or the beginning of whatever is actually happening. Apnea may just be the cause here. It would be rare, but it's not too much of a stretch since my mother has it severely. Genetics would supersede my physical makeup in that respect.

    Joe, I know you mentioned you've had countless tachy episodes. What initially was your resting pulse rate if you don't mind me asking? And your fitness level/history?

    God bless,

    Jon

  5. #15
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    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1821 View Post

    How do you explain the hot and red hands now? Or the Raynaud's-esque symptoms? How about the fact I go to bed with a pulse of 66-75 only to find myself spiking up to 120-140 throughout the night and in the morning even when I'm at my most relaxed? I can't necessarily buy this is just something in my unconscious mind. I think it would be dangerous for me to assume so. Not when my symptoms are consistent, evident, and varied though inextricably related to similar systems within my body.

    Now that's not to say anxiety hasn't influenced them. Or in part, been a key component in contributing to my general unease which indeed does not help. I concur. It's a vicious cycle.

    I should also mention that about a year ago, I would wake up with similar attacks. Especially shortness of breath. The dyspnea hasn't disappeared, and those attacks went into a remission of sorts prior to the flu and all this trauma. I noticed slight and subtle changes over the course of such time though. And I think they were precursors or the beginning of whatever is actually happening. Apnea may just be the cause here. It would be rare, but it's not too much of a stretch since my mother has it severely. Genetics would supersede my physical makeup in that respect.
    Focussing on all these physical symptoms for a second, they are all incredibly common with anxiety, but I'd like to add an addendum to the part I've set in bold. Anxiety and stress isn't 'in the mind'. Stress (and you are stressed, I can tell by your language) and anxiety are system wide and centred around the adrenals and central nervous system. You may well be having what the medical profession used to call a nervous breakdown. It's not really as dramatic as it sounds, it just means that you fundamentally have no resources left to deal with anything stressful. This is a place I got to about 4-5 years ago. I too looked for a thousand different medical reasons why my body wouldn't work, but there aren't any. My heart rate did exactly the same as yours is doing, relatively normal most of the time but would spike massively at night (often well over 150bpm). If I did any kind of prolonged exercise, even light exercise my heart rate would take hours to come down, and on several occasions it didn't come down and I ended up in A&E for 24-36 hours, heart rate constantly over 120bpm. Not once was anything untoward found, and ultimately one Doctor said to me (scratching his head) "I dunno man, all I can prescribe you is a massive dose of calm the fvck down". Those were literally his words, calm down.

    Also, shortness of breath is ridiculously common with anxiety and stress. It's one of the top 5 symptoms, and can be very persistent.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1821 View Post

    Joe, I know you mentioned you've had countless tachy episodes. What initially was your resting pulse rate if you don't mind me asking? And your fitness level/history?
    This doesn't really matter as I'm not you, but I have historically been very fit and not fit in equal measure. When I had most of my heart 'issues' I wasn't exercising regularly. My resting heart rate would be 60-70 or so, but would rarely go under 80 during the day. I became hyper focused on it to the point where I could tell my partner what my heart rate was within 1-2bpm without even checking. I knew every single second of the day exactly what it was. And here's what I want you to really listen to. When I finally stopped checking it, it went down 10-15 bpm. I don't think you've fully accepted the dangers in the dark you are creating in your mind right now, that the low level constant worry can have a significant effect on how your adrenals and nervous system are working.

    Having said all this, you should definitely 100% get all areas checked, just to be sure. But if you are given a clean bill of health, accept it.

    My personal belief here is that you are suffering from chronic symptoms due to multiple sources of stress, some of them self made. There's a common saying that stress can kill you, so it stands to reason that it can also make you feel like you're dying, right? It can create literally any symptom in the body.

  6. #16

    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Joe,

    Thanks as always again for your help and feedback - I hope you know I do appreciate your advice and am enjoying our conversation. I find it comforting to even talk with a fellow sufferer who understands. That being said, you make very sound points. I do believe there is something to be said about not paying attention to the numbers. I have learned first-hand it does exacerbate the issues. Though difficult to ignore, I was always a believer (yet ironically, not much of a participant lol) in the Claire Weekes idea of "floating" and embracing symptoms. This morning, I felt really atrocious - about to pass out, dizzy, and of course, my heart racing per usual. It may sound insane, but I literally pushed myself "into" these symptoms. I just emotionally and physically leaned right into them head-on. It's hard to explain. It was scary, extremely difficult, but somehow refreshing. It removed their power. It didn't diminish their severity, but I felt strangely in control and like it didn't matter anymore. I always get scared that's some really dark, horrible part of myself that is learning to "accept the inevitable." Even if that were the case, is that such a bad thing? If it means having freedom from these symptoms, whether anxiety or in the rare scenario of something sinister, that right there is a victory. I have a momentary reprieve from the tyranny of some undefined monster in my head/psyche. And I assume you'd agree, given the fact it seems you have done the same thing.

    On a side not, we've talked about health care here and the state of it a little bit. Well, I just thought I'd add that I have nothing good to say about the US medical system. You are correct - it DOES indeed push drugs over alternative, more effective therapies. The problem here in the States is that doctors and practitioners "can't be bothered" with true assessment. There is too much volume. That's not even considering how much they need to push in order to make back what they primarily invest in their education, clinics, staff, etc. I wish I could blame physicians, but that would be wrong of me. It's not them - it's the entire concept of healthcare being a privilege here. It is not a privilege. It is a right. Americans are slowly realizing this, but our government is FAR away from being able to rectify this situation (for uh...reasons that are very obvious and I don't need to explain here lol). I'm not hopeful it will be resolved in my lifetime, or perhaps even my children's (if God should bless me with them someday). The reason I get political here is because I DO believe this victimization especially affects those with mental health concerns. I've noticed how any sort of mention (even in passing) of anxiety is the code phrase to start second-guessing the credibility of the patient. NOT ALL doctors do this. Most don't. But there are, in my experience, a few who would be more inclined to be lenient in their testing and even subsequent course of treatment based on such criteria. Interestingly enough, therapists don't seem to be much better. Want access to decent psychological assessment here? Good luck. I hope you're Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne. CBT treatments cost minimum of 200 dollars per session, with no insurance coverage whatsoever. Think that's bad? Try going into Manhattan proper. They charge $1500 for a consultation. My providers here are considered "jokes" compared to these facilities, and again, very few insurances will reimburse for the suggested services. So now you can understand why most people jump to meds. They simply don't have the resources to entertain this insanity.

    Anyways, I'll let everyone know what happens after my next few appointments. But Joe, you're right. I'm taking my mind off this as much as I can in the meantime.

    Best wishes and happy healing to all.
    Last edited by Jon1821; 27-01-20 at 20:31.

  7. #17
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    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Jon,
    I am glad to hear that you are doing better! It is interesting to see you explain how you push yourself into the symptoms. You are the one that is in control. You. It was life changing for me when I realized that. For so long I let my anxiety and panic control me. I would completely shut down with any heart palpation or symptom that was not ordinary. It seems like you are on the up and up. I agree with Joe as well. This all seems anxiety and stress related to me. It reminds me of how I felt when I was buying my first home last year. I was under an extreme amount of stress. And that stress caused more stress. I would wake up in the middle of the night with a racing heart and just pace in circles. I would take my blood pressure and pulse during these times and would freak out because it was high. This would lead me to panic more and raise my pulse more. My resting heart rate shot up (I wear an Apple Watch so I track it). I would get so stressed I would feel sick to my stomach. The stress was causing my body to go into a state of constant fight or flight. I was always on alert. This sounds a lot like what you are facing. When we are on red alert and our body is under a lot of stress we get a TON of physical symptoms. Itís our body preparing us for that fight or flight. You have control. When I realized this and worked through it I was able to purchase my home, yay!, and now I am so much better. The racing heart is gone

  8. #18

    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Dear all,

    Yes it's me - I'm back. I just looked at the views on this thread and am kind of shocked/blown away. Perhaps this story resonated with more people than I thought. In any case, the plot thickens...I'm not better. At all. In fact, things have gotten crazier. And worse. My doctors are stumped and my life has basically fallen apart. I'm this close to canceling my wedding and surrendering to being housebound for the rest of my life. My fiance and parents are over this. They don't know how to help, are frustrated, and starting to become emotionally distant/cold. I can't blame them. I feel like I've already been dead for the last 3 months...the Jon they knew is gone. And whoever this person is...is not much of a person at all. I'm just a shell filled with pain, panic, and suffering.

    Let me explain.

    I was optimistic that things would even out when I noticed my heart rate and blood pressure coming down a bit. For a few weeks, they weren't AS bad. I kept chalking them up to anxiety, pushing through no matter how horrible it felt. However, they still fluctuated wildly and would spike without provocation. Showering was still obscenely difficult, and I'd realized my heart was having strange "hard beats" or "half beats" that made me feel faint throughout the day. I was short of breath on and off (per usual), and it almost felt like the electrical system in my body from brain to heart was "off." Dizziness persisted as well, but I allowed the feeling to not overtake me. At times, this was near impossible and actually was. At one point in the supermarket, I thought for sure I was gonna pass out and fall over. Barely made it to the car, but shocking myself with cold water took me out of the spell for a brief enough time to drive home.

    Soon, my sleep was becoming more disrupted. I'd wake up tachy (about 100-110) almost every other night. This was occurring without any remembered nightmares or dreams. I'd find that in the morning my heart was pounding harder. Getting out of bed felt like carrying bricks. Eventually, these "half beats" were feeling like full-on ectopics at points throughout my day. It was making it nearly impossible to venture out. I still did (and do), but it takes the very life out of me. The palpitations were and still are unrelenting and entirely unpredictable.

    One particular day (Feb. 6), I ventured out to have a normal afternoon taking my mother for therapy. I felt unusually fine, to the point where it was unsettling. I came home and my heart rate was 68. I was almost convinced maybe the worst of this would be over soon and I'd get better. I walked to the kitchen for a small bite. Suddenly, I felt COMPLETELY out of rhythm. My heart would just not go back to normal. I sat down immediately. My Kardia device registered 168 BPM with a "possible atrial fibrillation" reading. By the time the ambulance got there, I was down to 110-120 but feeling very short of breath with some minor chest pain. The hospital in turn sent me home again, as the EKG was normal by that point. The captured events on my monitor were sent to my EP and cardiologists. They thought perhaps it was a bad case of sinus tachycardia, as the strips were hard to interpret or determine. One of them strongly felt it was an SVT event. Per usual, they insisted I take beta blockers and pretend this all would just go away. I took it easy, scared out of my wits (as nothing like that EVER has occurred before), and tried to just move on half-crippled by the fear alone.

    One of my cardios then assigns me a holter. I tell him to pay attention to the fact that my partial right bundle branch block, right axis deviation, and repolarization abnormalities have been very pronounced on recent EKGs. He tells me not to worry. It catches approximately one episode of me jumping to 142 BPM in my sleep. He seemed not taken aback by this, chalked it up to a night terror, and said take 5 mg of Propranolol each day. Didn't feel comfortable with this, as I still didn't have a formal diagnosis of ANYTHING to warrant beta blocker usage daily.

    Fast forward to yesterday. All day, my heart felt "wrong." I had woken up in the middle of that early morning with a pronounced "sinus arrhythmia" and numerous "unclassified" readings according to my 6-lead Kardia device. Many of the cardiologist-reviewed reports were coming back "rhythm of undetermined origin." This persisted ALL DAY, for a bulk of my readings. I sent these to my doctors, who DID swiftly respond and say these were all normal readings and not to worry. I told them I felt sick still, but trusted them (like we are "supposed to" - being anxiety sufferers and all). I fell asleep at around 10:30 PM.

    11:44 PM - my heart goes totally out of rhythm. I jump up from a dream where I could FEEL this happening. In the dream itself, my heart was RACING beyond belief. I grab the Kardia - 180 BPM clear as day. "Unclassified" rhythm staring me in the face. We jump in the car to the ER. I'm still 120 BPM by that point. I down a 10 mg Propranolol before leaving. Two hours later, I'm back in the 70s-80s. Doctors at the ER (who know me by now) are stumped. They tell me to call all my specialists and demand I get an answer and further testing.

    My primary/cardio takes one look at the strips this morning and says "Yeah, let me consult with an EP on this. I'm gonna get back to you - we have to figure this out."

    Meanwhile, my family thinks I'm just "nuts."

    So now I'm currently sitting here wondering where the heck my life is going now.

    I could use you help, input, and advice. Your concern means the world to me. And I thank you all in advance.

    Truly suffering here,

    Jon

  9. #19
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    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Hello again Jon.

    Sorry to hear about all this, but I want to ask you some things.

    1) Tell me about this -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1821 View Post
    One particular day (Feb. 6), I ventured out to have a normal afternoon taking my mother for therapy.
    2) Has any medical professional at any time given you an actual medical diagnosis of anything being medically wrong?

  10. #20

    Re: Long Story About A Crazy Heart (Bear With Me) -PACs, PVCs, and more...

    Dear Joe,

    My mother goes for physical therapy after suffering a devastating injury in November which resulted in surgery and a pulmonary embolism. I believe I mentioned this way back in the first post I made. I should have clarified - it is only down the street really, a short drive by car. All I do is watch her exercise her shoulder and thatís about it.


    As far as diagnoses are concerned - formally Iíve been told that I have PACs/PVCs with a right axis deviation, partial right bundle branch block, and depolarization abnormalities of an unspecific nature. They tell me this is a normal variant, along with a recent ďsinus arrhythmiaĒ - all of which never showed on EKGs until this madness began.

    I should also mention Iím worried still about sleep apnea and am doing a home study tonight. Praying this might shed some light on why sleep is difficult for the heart and leaves me with dry mouth - though Iíve been told Iím not a candidate for it. It does run in my family however.

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