Wonder how we would have coped...........?

[ankietyjoe]

Joe, you can live within your means but the issue is often because of where you live. In my city house prices are still reasonable. The issue with things like utilities and insurance span the divides across the UK but wages keep a good pace here as opposed to a place like London where you could buy a garage with what I could buy a house for in my city.

Like you say there are different challenges. Poverty was easily worse the further back you go but we have challenges to getting on in life and media.

I'm not sure I agree with you here because property prices are only reasonable relative to the South. They have still risen way beyond wages and inflation.

The average house price across the UK is around £230-240k right (or a 1 bed flat in Slough....really...). If a young family in a relatively affordable area wanted to buy a modest house, they'd need £25k in the bank, and have an income of way beyond £60k for this to be doable. This is just not feasible for the majority, and it's people striving to achieve this that is (in my opinion) laying down decades of stress. Even if they did manage to save the money and secure a mortgage, they will be committing to a minimum £1000 per month payment for most of the rest of their lives, and that's now interest rates are rock bottom. I worked in the property market in the late 80s and saw what happened when interest rates shot up. It was not pretty, and it will happen again one day.

These days it's becoming 'life by subscription' and people are becoming used to over extending and committing to massive financial outlay just to exist. In some respects it's even worse in the US because of the health care costs, but that's somewhat balanced by other outgoings being cheaper.

Should people not have the opportunity to take time out when they need to? I can't help but look at the social care that Scandinavian countries enjoy and wonder why we can't do the same. It doesn't breed apathy or laziness, people just have more time to figure out what they want/need to do.

[Carnation]

Terry, that was one of my points....
If you are lucky to buy a house in London for cash, all well and good, but basically the majority of people had to scrimp and scrap hard for a down-payment on a property and it wasn't uncommon for 2 or 3 generations to live in the same household years ago. And like you say, there are always affordable areas. Luxuries were not around years ago. My mum used to hand-wash and it would take most of the day and that's when she had 3 jobs as well. There were no microwaves, dishwashers or car clean at the garage. It actually makes me think how they managed, but they did.

Joe, you know I respect your help and agree on many anxiety issues, but we have to remain to disagree on this topic.

Lencoboy, I realise the point of your thread and apologise if its gone off track a bit.

[Carnation]

Just for info Joe, you can buy a house in Great Yarmouth for around £50,000 and get work with the same pay as London. As is with many other areas.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm not sure I agree with you here because property prices are only reasonable relative to the South. They have still risen way beyond wages and inflation.

The average house price across the UK is around £230-240k right (or a 1 bed flat in Slough....really...). If a young family in a relatively affordable area wanted to buy a modest house, they'd need £25k in the bank, and have an income of way beyond £60k for this to be doable. This is just not feasible for the majority, and it's people striving to achieve this that is (in my opinion) laying down decades of stress. Even if they did manage to save the money and secure a mortgage, they will be committing to a minimum £1000 per month payment for most of the rest of their lives, and that's now interest rates are rock bottom. I worked in the property market in the late 80s and saw what happened when interest rates shot up. It was not pretty, and it will happen again one day.

These days it's becoming 'life by subscription' and people are becoming used to over extending and committing to massive financial outlay just to exist. In some respects it's even worse in the US because of the health care costs, but that's somewhat balanced by other outgoings being cheaper.

Should people not have the opportunity to take time out when they need to? I can't help but look at the social care that Scandinavian countries enjoy and wonder why we can't do the same. It doesn't breed apathy or laziness, people just have more time to figure out what they want/need to do.

What I'm saying is there is a difference between affluent areas, metropolitan areas, the countryside and places that are less desirable. The big problems lie in places like London but here things are very different. An £8k deposit is much more achievable with 2 people earning £35-40k between them.

Sure they have still risen but unlike the South where you need a massive deposit and equally massive salary that is not the case here. How easy is it for 2 people on minimum wage to get a place in London? Here everyone still does it.

[ankietyjoe]

Terry, that was one of my points....
If you are lucky to buy a house in London for cash, all well and good, but basically the majority of people had to scrimp and scrap hard for a down-payment on a property and it wasn't uncommon for 2 or 3 generations to live in the same household years ago. And like you say, there are always affordable areas. Luxuries were not around years ago. My mum used to hand-wash and it would take most of the day and that's when she had 3 jobs as well. There were no microwaves, dishwashers or car clean at the garage. It actually makes me think how they managed, but they did.

Joe, you know I respect your help and agree on many anxiety issues, but we have to remain to disagree on this topic.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me in any way. I can only form opinions based on my own experience.

And yes, it has gone off topic a little bit, but I always see a strong link between long term, low level stress and a person's ability to cope with fresh stress.

And for the record, I NEVER paid cash for a property, my Father was able to 45 years ago simply because he was doing 'ok' and saved for a decade. My point is almost nobody can do that any more, it puts virtually 100% of the population on the treadmill.

I also don't see most forms of luxury as a luxury. The only real luxury I value is time.

And Terry, the vast majority of people don't have a massive salary in the South. Most property price increases are driven by investors and speculators. Property as pension etc.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, I know that. My point was that despite the boom and wages failing to keep pace there is also a massive divide between somewhere like London and where I live. The media talk about the worst places, as usual, when many above the M25 will be finding it as easy to get onto the property now as they did 20 years ago.

So it's not possible to discuss one side because it misses out those struggling in high price areas, not just the South, just as we can't say everyone needs a huge deposit. It's just not the case.

I agree with you about the stresses, Joe. My GAD certainly came from work pressure and bills/debt would have only made it much worse. A simpler life is very tempting and better than chasing status and careers.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Terry, that was one of my points....
If you are lucky to buy a house in London for cash, all well and good, but basically the majority of people had to scrimp and scrap hard for a down-payment on a property and it wasn't uncommon for 2 or 3 generations to live in the same household years ago. And like you say, there are always affordable areas. Luxuries were not around years ago. My mum used to hand-wash and it would take most of the day and that's when she had 3 jobs as well. There were no microwaves, dishwashers or car clean at the garage. It actually makes me think how they managed, but they did.

Joe, you know I respect your help and agree on many anxiety issues, but we have to remain to disagree on this topic.

Lencoboy, I realise the point of your thread and apologise if its gone off track a bit.

Yes, Carnation. I want to make it clear that poverty today can still be very bad. One guy I knew from the mental health charity lived in one room with 1 set of clothes, no job and a 3 bar heater. He was pushed into poverty due to a marriage breakdown, his mental health and legal aid for divorce ending.

However we often see poverty lines that are above people with houses with lots in compared to previous generations. I've worked on fuel poverty in the past and seen how it actually covered our own employees and they weren't struggling. So it's never as simple as a media headline.

My dad bought his house at a much cheaper price than today. He worked 6-7 days a week to raise 3 kids with a holiday or two a year to the seaside. No fancy Nike trainers and computers came much later as we grew up. They had very high tax rates years ago and university was mostly for the loaded. Out of school at 15 and down the pit. No government cash to top people up.

But today it can be bad in it's different ways. I just get sick of the news saying it's worse now than 80 years ago. It's b0ll0cks.

[Carnation]

Joe, I wasn't insinuating you paid cash, I was saying it hypothetically. I already stated it was your father who purchased a property in London for cash. And in my opinion you've singled out owning or not owning a property as being harder today than decades ago. There are more second home owners today than ever existed for a good portion of the population, which bodes well for their children's future who will benefit nicely. So I stick to my original point, because I remember many newly married couples decades ago living with their in laws for many years as well as sons and daughters not leaving the family home because they couldn't afford to buy anything on their own.
I may be wrong, but you seem to be a bit angry when you shout "NEVER", even though you say you don't mind people disagreeing or having their own opinion.

I'm not sure what your message was about stress links though. Was that a general observation on the general public or are you attempting to be my therapist?

I agree Terry, there are some very distressing situations with some people and their homes. You might even remember a situation I had myself when mum went into a home and as a consequence, it made me officially homeless.
But, I too wince when I hear news about how hard life is today compared to my parents generation and even more so, my grandparents generation.

[pulisa]

I agree...I always wince whenever I hear how young people are so impoverished yet they think nothing of shelling out hundreds on tickets for music events etc..And as for "Gap Yahs" and travelling...

[Lencoboy]

Lencoboy, I realise the point of your thread and apologise if its gone off track a bit.[/QUOTE]

No it hasn't gone off track at all.

In fact I'm now concerned that I may be the one responsible for starting a thread that could easily descend into venomous arguments and debates, though I really hope it doesn't. And I hope everyone remains as civil and respectful as possible, as it wasn't my intention to troll or anything.

Nevertheless, it is reassuring to see some level-headed responses in general so far, as people who constantly harp on about the 'good old days' and nearly everything being dreadful today, are amongst my biggest bugbears. True there are some pretty horrible and unfair things happening these days, and probably always will be, but as the likes of Pulisa, Carnation, Terry, etc have pointed out, and contrary to popular belief, I personally don't think we are worse off now than ever in the grand scheme of things, and (dare I say it) I am a lifelong Labour voter, even though I may not have always agreed with all of their policies.

To put things in perspective, one is probably still more likely to be, say, a victim of a road crash than to be struck down with Coronavirus, be killed or caught up in a terrorist attack or riot, be randomly assaulted or murdered by feral youths, etc. Although I am not in any way trivialising any of the issues I have just mentioned, it's the fact that we seem to have increasingly become slaves to the media over the past twenty-odd years or so, both online and with conventional printed publications and have a tendency to quake in our boots over certain events that may happen many miles from where we actually live that probably wouldn't have troubled the national headlines during the pre-Internet era, unless it was very very serious, of course.