Wonder how we would have coped...........?

[ankietyjoe]

In fact I'm now concerned that I may be the one responsible for starting a thread that could easily descend into venomous arguments and debates, though I really hope it doesn't.

This is not the place for that. We can disagree and move on.

[MyNameIsTerry]

No need to worry about arguments, Lencoboy. They do sometimes happen on here but we quickly move on and Admin will step in to cool things down anyway.

It's a very valid thread and it's not the first time this subject has come up.

I'm sure we all appreciate as a new member you worry you have caused some trouble but please don't. We are a friendly bunch on here.

[Carnation]

Lencoboy, no need to worry

[jray23]

Social media. Google. 24/7 news.

Because of these everyone thinks they're an expert on everything (including me obviously). As opposed to Socrates, who knew that he knew nothing.

One other thing, is that despite our problems we are in the wealthiest, most leisurely, most spoiled time period in human history. Or quite simply, we're getting soft.



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[ankietyjoe]

One other thing, is that despite our problems we are in the wealthiest, most leisurely, most spoiled time period in human history. Or quite simply, we're getting soft.

I couldn't agree less with this, for a very specific reason. To achieve the wealth and leisure, we have to undertake activities that encourage exactly the kind of stress that creates the anxiety. It's long term, low level stress. It's got nothing to do with going soft, because the leisure and wealth have a cost.

[KK77]

If technology and access to it, which has become ubiquitous, is a measure of "wealth", then we have certainly advanced materially. However, I also agree with AJ that the creation of "wealth" generally involves stress - mentally, physically and emotionally. So psychologically I see little or no advancement.

To a large extent the creation of wealth has always involved "hard work" but it could be argued that, with time, "hard work" has morphed into psychological stress, which, as AJ points out, is counterproductive and detrimental in the overall measure of "wealth" and "leisure".

[MyNameIsTerry]

I couldn't agree less with this, for a very specific reason. To achieve the wealth and leisure, we have to undertake activities that encourage exactly the kind of stress that creates the anxiety. It's long term, low level stress. It's got nothing to do with going soft, because the leisure and wealth have a cost.

I think you are both right(and KK who posted while I was typing). We are spoiled, we don't have the pressures of leaving school at 15 and going down the pit for the rest of our lives. We have many more choices. We have excellent healthcare. Our baselines have increased, we are mostly born into having a lot more.
But it is also true that there is a cost to chasing 'stuff'. Even if you don't you have to take on traditional worries about house, family, job, etc and there are some specific issues more relevant to people today based on where they live.

But I think the point Jray was making was that living the West we aren't in the kind of poverty developing nations are. We take a lot for granted.

I wonder what the stress of being in poverty with no healthcare and looming wars does to people? In programmes you can see they are happier with themselves because they see life as more than perhaps we do as we are swamped by the 'stuff'. But they also have a very hard life at the same time.

[jray23]

I couldn't agree less with this, for a very specific reason. To achieve the wealth and leisure, we have to undertake activities that encourage exactly the kind of stress that creates the anxiety. It's long term, low level stress. It's got nothing to do with going soft, because the leisure and wealth have a cost.

You're welcome to disagree. I don't think it's true though. I'm working "really hard" right now with my conference preparations that may or may not ever happen anyways. Lot of stress. But most of the day my butt is sitting in a chair and my heart rate is on the 60s.

I will take this kind of stress over what past generations have gone through. I will take not having to physically spend my day every day searching for hunting or growing my food just so I can survive. I will take not working in hot mines breaking my back 80 hours a week.

And as for wealth, I don't mean having technology. I mean actual money. There are less people living in poverty now than at any time in history. There are less people starving now than at any time in history. There are more people with running water and electricity than at any time in history. Many of us have bigger houses, we have cars, we have common possessions, that past generations would have considered wanton luxuries. We are incredibly lucky to be living at this time (although hopefully future generations will have it better than us!)

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[ankietyjoe]

I will take this kind of stress over what past generations have gone through. I will take not having to physically spend my day every day searching for hunting or growing my food just so I can survive. I will take not working in hot mines breaking my back 80 hours a week.

The vast majority of humans that have ever lived didn't work in hot mines for 80 hours a week. And spending the day hunting for/growing or scavenging food is literally what we are designed to do. Sitting in a chair with a low heart rate is monumentally bad for us (as proven by countless studies).

And again, I have no issue with people disagreeing with me. We each have our own observations and experiences on this.

[pulisa]

I wonder whether the hunter gatherers actually enjoyed hunting and gathering? They wouldn't have known any better and didn't have access to social media...Who knows how stressed/bored they were? I would imagine they were permanently stressed and counsellors weren't invented..