Covid-19 discussion thread

[Gary A]

You seem to be agreeing with a of lot things we say but for some reason you're incapable of putting 2 + 2 together and reaching logical conclusions. Either, you're being intelectually dishonest and playing games or just can't see the forest for the trees. I can understand that because being a professional conspiracy "debunker", if you start connecting these obvious dots then your whole worldview falls apart. So, you resort to weak arguments like " numbers are a bit fuzzy" or that elderlry in care homes have been "neglected".

It would be obvious to anyone who is not as biased as you that by "murder" I meant the elderely had been left to die in care homes. Rather than sugar coating, I just called it out for what it is and nowhere did I say that it was care home workers. You're probably going to put this down to "incompetence" and brush it aside.

NHS management said elderly would “have to die” in care homes

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/05/19/cauk-m19.html

Devastating evidence has come to light confirming that the Johnson government’s murderous policies have led to the deaths of thousands of care home residents.

Office for National Statistics (ONS) data shows that around 12,000 people have died in the UK’s care homes. The real figure is far higher—at least 20,000 according to the Financial Times and the Times.

So let me get this right. If I say that the numbers are “fuzzy”, even though I’ve went into great detail about exactly what I mean and why they are “fuzzy”, I’m apparently incapable of reaching logical conclusions? What a load of absolute tosh.

So I’ll explain again, for probably about the 5th or 6th time, what I mean by “fuzzy”.

If people die after being diagnosed with Covid-19, in the absence of autopsy then the only thing that can be said is they have died after being diagnosed with Covid-19. That’s exactly what IS said, but of course that wouldn’t fit your warped little view so you ignore that. Also, in order to get an accurate morbidity rate, the entire population would need to be tested either with a test showing current or previous infection. I’m sure even you can see that that’s impossible to achieve in a period of a few months.

Your need to make everything a conspiracy causes you to blatantly ignore such obvious things and start harping on about people being murdered, psychological warfare and other such drivel that belongs nowhere near intellectual debate.

Your use of the word “murder” is designed to get a reaction, nothing more. What would be wrong in just saying that they’ve been neglected and are dying due to a lack of care, testing or attention? Ah but see, then you’d have to admit that Covid-19 exists, and we can’t have that can we? It’s not a conspiracy then, it’s just a government making a royal arse of it.

You still haven’t even gotten as far as explaining how anyone can fake a virus. You haven’t even tried. You talk about “weak arguments” when the only attempt you’ve ever made at explaining that is to say that hundreds of thousands of scientists worldwide are “following orders”, while providing not a shred of evidence as to who it is even giving said orders. Arguments don’t come much weaker than that.

You reckon that the virus doesn’t exist and these old folk are just dropping dead for no other reason than being kept inside? I mean, seriously? That’s just absolute nonsense.

I’ve given up trying to get you to back your assertion that Covid-19 doesn’t exist because, well, you can’t. You know it and I know it. The evidence for its existence it’s staggering, and on a personal level my mother’s best friend died from it in April at 59 years of age with no underlying conditions. I watched her funeral via a video link. Perhaps I should have told her grieving sons and grandchildren that it was psychological warfare that killed her?

You said it yourself. Connecting dots. That’s all you do. They’re only “obvious” to someone who wants to think they know better than everyone and is desperate to reach a conclusion that they’ve read on tinfoilhat.com.

My position is clear. Covid-19 exists. It’s killing people. Are there deaths being attributed to it perhaps too hastily? Yes, but this is purely due to a lack of a model by which to gather data accurately. The carehome deaths are a scandal and are down to a government not doing their job. There is no fake virus, psychological warfare or evil controlling hand. This is a new virus that has seen some nations deal with it far better than others.

Your assertion that it’s fake and it’s only being put out there to control people is an embarrassing position for an adult with half a brain to hold.

[Gary A]

You have a habit of expounding ridicule in order to discredit and "debunk", Gary.

The existence of a virus is not necessary. Elderly people, most at the end of their lives and terminal, have had care and treatment withdrawn. This is why they have died months, perhaps even years, before their time. Funding has been massively cut too and even in the cases where treatment has been ostensibly given, it has proved too little, too late.

So none of this is "CT". The case that all these patients died even "with" COVID-19 is bunkum when vital care, treatment and support are withdrawn. If "murder" or "extermination" is too strong for you, then you must admit this is a form of eugenics and manslaughter and there will be many cases of families taking legal action.

So now the question remains: Why were we led to believe that this lockdown was needed to protect the old and vulnerable when the opposite is now the case? In fact, the elderly could have been shielded and protected in care homes without a lockdown on the rest of general society.

The mendacity and deceit is utterly staggering and all this is not even including the irreversible damage inflicted on economies, the extent of which govts are only now beginning to admit...

I apologise to you for a bit of name calling.

I don’t disagree with anything you say about the carehome deaths, they are a scandal.

The lockdown? I don’t know. I personally think we will only see if it was necessary after the fact, but what I would say is that if we hadn’t went into lockdown there was a real worry that the NHS would have been completely overwhelmed. Again, this will only be shown to be true or false when all is said and done, which is a position I’ve held since day one.

[Phoenixess]

Is this thread for all covid questions??


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[Fishmanpa]

Is this thread for all covid questions??

Its turned into the opinions leaning toward the socioeconomic and political ramifications of the pandemic. Real or not

THIS ONE is geared to fears of getting it and symptoms etc.

Positive thoughts

[Scass]

Is this thread for all covid questions??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It seems to be more discussion. There’s is a “worried” thread that isn’t so heated.

[Phoenixess]

Thanks guys


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[MyNameIsTerry]

So let me get this right. If I say that the numbers are “fuzzy”, even though I’ve went into great detail about exactly what I mean and why they are “fuzzy”, I’m apparently incapable of reaching logical conclusions? What a load of absolute tosh.

So I’ll explain again, for probably about the 5th or 6th time, what I mean by “fuzzy”.

If people die after being diagnosed with Covid-19, in the absence of autopsy then the only thing that can be said is they have died after being diagnosed with Covid-19. That’s exactly what IS said, but of course that wouldn’t fit your warped little view so you ignore that. Also, in order to get an accurate morbidity rate, the entire population would need to be tested either with a test showing current or previous infection. I’m sure even you can see that that’s impossible to achieve in a period of a few months.

Your need to make everything a conspiracy causes you to blatantly ignore such obvious things and start harping on about people being murdered, psychological warfare and other such drivel that belongs nowhere near intellectual debate.

Your use of the word “murder” is designed to get a reaction, nothing more. What would be wrong in just saying that they’ve been neglected and are dying due to a lack of care, testing or attention? Ah but see, then you’d have to admit that Covid-19 exists, and we can’t have that can we? It’s not a conspiracy then, it’s just a government making a royal arse of it.

You still haven’t even gotten as far as explaining how anyone can fake a virus. You haven’t even tried. You talk about “weak arguments” when the only attempt you’ve ever made at explaining that is to say that hundreds of thousands of scientists worldwide are “following orders”, while providing not a shred of evidence as to who it is even giving said orders. Arguments don’t come much weaker than that.

You reckon that the virus doesn’t exist and these old folk are just dropping dead for no other reason than being kept inside? I mean, seriously? That’s just absolute nonsense.

I’ve given up trying to get you to back your assertion that Covid-19 doesn’t exist because, well, you can’t. You know it and I know it. The evidence for its existence it’s staggering, and on a personal level my mother’s best friend died from it in April at 59 years of age with no underlying conditions. I watched her funeral via a video link. Perhaps I should have told her grieving sons and grandchildren that it was psychological warfare that killed her?

You said it yourself. Connecting dots. That’s all you do. They’re only “obvious” to someone who wants to think they know better than everyone and is desperate to reach a conclusion that they’ve read on tinfoilhat.com.

My position is clear. Covid-19 exists. It’s killing people. Are there deaths being attributed to it perhaps too hastily? Yes, but this is purely due to a lack of a model by which to gather data accurately. The carehome deaths are a scandal and are down to a government not doing their job. There is no fake virus, psychological warfare or evil controlling hand. This is a new virus that has seen some nations deal with it far better than others.

Your assertion that it’s fake and it’s only being put out there to control people is an embarrassing position for an adult with half a brain to hold.

I don't take his point seriously about the vulnerable and elderly. His position is this is a hoax therefore he would have done nothing to shield them and just let the virus run its course killing many more of the at risk. That would have been an even bigger failure. He's just using them.

Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope your mum is coping and has plenty of support around her.

[Lencoboy]

Its turned into the opinions leaning toward the socioeconomic and political ramifications of the pandemic. Real or not

THIS ONE is geared to fears of getting it and symptoms etc.

Positive thoughts

I agree with you entirely, Fishmanpa.

Whilst I agree that BoJo and Co's handling of this crisis has most certainly been questionable, no doubt Labour or the Lib Dems probably would have been vilified just the same, especially by the 'hard-righters' and the die-hard 'know-it-alls' of this country. And also the 'foreigners', benefit 'scroungers', etc, probably would have been used as further scapegoats.

Blame culture galore!!

[Gary A]

I don't take his point seriously about the vulnerable and elderly. His position is this is a hoax therefore he would have done nothing to shield them and just let the virus run its course killing many more of the at risk. That would have been an even bigger failure. He's just using them.

Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope your mum is coping and has plenty of support around her.

Thanks. I was a bit upset for her more than anything.

She was in hospital for 6 days and had to say goodbye to her sons, who I’m quite close to, via zoom.

I don’t mean to add worry to anyone here, which is why I haven’t mentioned it before, but it gets even harder to listen to those claiming it’s all rubbish when you’ve witnessed the grief that it causes first hand.

[Noivous]

As some here know my wife is a respiratory therapist directly dealing with covid 19 patients. She got home from work last night and proclaimed... "they're shutting the covid units down!" That's a great sign! They had five units that were converted from other units and now they are down to two. Probably today or tomorrow it will be down to one...and then none.

That's the latest from the trenches.

N.