Covid-19 discussion thread

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/13/phill...amp/?ito=upday

Backing her view, Erica said that she’s weighed up the risks of having Covid, having tested positive in the past and therefore ‘has antibodies’.

She also said that she doesn’t believe she is putting her patients at risk, adding that the supposed link between myocarditis and the vaccine was a factor in her decision.

Dr Philippa Kaye, who was in the ITV studio, spoke up to outline that the risks of getting myocarditis – which is inflammation of the heart muscle – are ‘greater with Covid itself than with the vaccine’.

[pulisa]

The next few days will be dominated by the latest scandal. How a Chinese agent threw money at one of the Labour front bench whilst cosying up to two Tory PMs (and probably other ministers...Osbourne is bound to be in there somewhere). Should help Boris push past BringYourOwnBottle-gate.

Never would have happened on your watch, Agent P

There were many interesting liaisons on my watch, Terry...but my lips are sealed until I get a phone call from the DM!

[Lencoboy]

I did suggest that I probably shouldn't read too much into just one day's stats.

You're correct that the news headlines over the past few days have been dominated by the (Tory) Partygate scandal, and of course the scandal concerning the antivaxx Aussie cricket player, but surely Omicron would still be one of the foremost headlines if it really was getting worse nationwide.

However, many 'experts' over the past few days seem to agree that it's likely we might already be past the peak of this Omicron wave.

But of course we should still wait a while longer till we start popping the champagne corks!

Soz, I meant the antivaxx Aussie tennis player!

[Pamplemousse]

https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/13/phill...amp/?ito=upday

Nonetheless, patients are presenting with this condition post-vaccination along with other conditions, especially in younger patients and I know it's reason enough to put some NHS employees off their jabs and let's be truthful, we should have accepted by now that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching Covid but merely reduces your likelihood of being seriously ill from it so it's a bit of a Catch-22 - you could get myocarditis from Covid, or you could get it from a jab. Thinking about it, about 10% of the UK's population can't/won't get vaccinated and about 10% of the NHS's total staff won't get vaccinated so it does fit with the national trend I suppose.

Let me make something quite clear at this point, given recent discussions in this thread: for what it's worth, I believe as many people should be vaccinated as can have it (and some of the more deranged comments by the anti-vax brigade astound me - "unvaccinated sperm", anyone?) What I am dead set against is making vaccination a condition of employment; I'm not overly impressed with recent actions taken by Ocado, for instance so I'm boycotting them.

Terry - my third colleague who contracted Covid just before Christmas is now back at work and seemingly okay. Hearing quite a few reports of entire families having their Christmas turned upside-down by it too.

[Lencoboy]

Nonetheless, patients are presenting with this condition post-vaccination along with other conditions, especially in younger patients and I know it's reason enough to put some NHS employees off their jabs and let's be truthful, we should have accepted by now that being vaccinated doesn't stop you catching Covid but merely reduces your likelihood of being seriously ill from it so it's a bit of a Catch-22 - you could get myocarditis from Covid, or you could get it from a jab. Thinking about it, about 10% of the UK's population can't/won't get vaccinated and about 10% of the NHS's total staff won't get vaccinated so it does fit with the national trend I suppose.

Let me make something quite clear at this point, given recent discussions in this thread: for what it's worth, I believe as many people should be vaccinated as can have it (and some of the more deranged comments by the anti-vax brigade astound me - "unvaccinated sperm", anyone?) What I am dead set against is making vaccination a condition of employment; I'm not overly impressed with recent actions taken by Ocado, for instance so I'm boycotting them.

Terry - my third colleague who contracted Covid just before Christmas is now back at work and seemingly okay. Hearing quite a few reports of entire families having their Christmas turned upside-down by it too.

Seems like you're 'on the fence' and seeing both sides of the 'to vax or not to vax' argument.

Personally it's the antivaxxers who are forever trying to politicise the issue and assume they're untouchable that I find most jarring of all.

Bit like the tiny minority who still refuse to wear seatbelts whilst travelling in motor vehicles and/or persist in smoking in enclosed spaces around children, etc.

[Gary A]

Vaccination reduces the risk of symptomatic Covid infection. It of course is not entirely impossible to transmit Covid whilst being asymptomatic, but it is far more likely to be transmitted while displaying symptoms such as coughing and sneezing. It’s also more likely to spread from folk who are pre-symptomatic than those who are asymptomatic and remain so. This is most likely due to viral load and shedding.

I’m still of a mind that nobody should be losing a job if unvaccinated, but at the same time I’m still utterly convinced that the vast majority of those refusing it are doing so based on pseudoscientific nonsense. However, if the government really are going to push this “no jab no job” thing they really need to start showing stone cold evidence that unvaccinated people present a higher risk of transmission. If they can’t, or won’t, then the idea is simply not based on facts and it will be met with constant resistance.

It honestly infuriates me that we as a people look as if we’re being deemed incapable of evaluating scientifically tested evidence. Is this really modern society, whereby those in charge tell us that they have seen the evidence therefore we must base our decisions on their evaluation? Just show us the bloody data that you’re basing this decision on. If it’s there, show it, for goodness sake!

[Pamplemousse]

Vaccination reduces the risk of symptomatic Covid infection. It of course is not entirely impossible to transmit Covid whilst being asymptomatic, but it is far more likely to be transmitted while displaying symptoms such as coughing and sneezing. It’s also more likely to spread from folk who are pre-symptomatic than those who are asymptomatic and remain so. This is most likely due to viral load and shedding.

I’m still of a mind that nobody should be losing a job if unvaccinated, but at the same time I’m still utterly convinced that the vast majority of those refusing it are doing so based on pseudoscientific nonsense. However, if the government really are going to push this “no jab no job” thing they really need to start showing stone cold evidence that unvaccinated people present a higher risk of transmission. If they can’t, or won’t, then the idea is simply not based on facts and it will be met with constant resistance.

It honestly infuriates me that we as a people look as if we’re being deemed incapable of evaluating scientifically tested evidence. Is this really modern society, whereby those in charge tell us that they have seen the evidence therefore we must base our decisions on their evaluation? Just show us the bloody data that you’re basing this decision on. If it’s there, show it, for goodness sake!

I know we've locked horns in the past over this damned virus Gary, but I agree with much of your post. I do believe there to be pseudo-science at the root of much of it, unless there really is something we're not being told: the fact that this "jab or job" ultimatum is only for employees of NHS England makes me suspicious too and I suspect when the inevitable employment tribunals get held to contest staff dismissals, the inconsistency in this position compared with NHS Scotland, NHS Wales or NHS NI will go a long way to supporting the employees' cases - can you imagine what could happen where staff live close to a national border like say, Chester?

The only bit I'm unsure of in your post is that a lot of people really are incapable of looking at evidence and being objective; as much credence is given to "feelings" as to rational thought. Witness the latest outburst of stupidity by the BBC, who in an attempt to "prove" they are not part of "cancel culture" and are not biassed are now saying that they will give alternative viewpoints a chance to be heard "with due weight".

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...itorial-policy

[Gary A]

The only bit I'm unsure of in your post is that a lot of people really are incapable of looking at evidence and being objective.

Theres a saying on this by American astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson;

“The great thing about science is that it’s true whether you believe in it or not.”

The point being that folk can be incapable or unwilling to understand stone cold evidence all they like. When their argument is demonstrably false they have none. It’s like someone claiming Earth is flat. This is demonstrably false. I don’t care how much they believe it, I can literally prove that they are incorrect in front of their very eyes.

The same surely applies to this. At this point the argument that the science isn’t solid enough may just have a bit more weight behind it because the science that has apparently led to this decision has not been shown. If and when it is, this argument falls apart and you’re simply left with someone who is going with their gut feeling or, even more flimsy, a belief.

Evidence is key. It’s how we function as a society. In this instance, if you’re going to condemn highly trained and professional individuals to the point of unemployment, you best have some pretty damning evidence to do so. If you don’t, you’re quite rightly going to face a very bad backlash.

[pulisa]

The thing is that "evidence" will always be discredited by those with an agenda to discredit it in our society. No matter how solid and definitive the evidence is.

[.Poppy.]

I’m sure it’s been brought up before, but I wonder what it is about this specific vaccine that has people up in arms.

I work in research admin at a university. There are a lot of departments and areas of research that require vaccinations and always have. Working with animals? Must have tetanus. Probably rabies as well, depending on the nature of the work - and all vet staff and students have to get the rabies vax. Then there are the biosafety researchers working with different types of influenza and other scary stuff that all require specific vaccinations to get into the lab.

Heck, even as a student living in the dorms I had to be up to date with a laundry list of vaccinations. I volunteered once at a school where whooping cough broke out and anyone who was due or even about to be due for their booster eagerly lined up for it- they held a clinic in the school. Maybe one or two people were opposed, but very, very few and I’ve only heard people refusing a vaccine in my line of work if they are physically unable to get it, in which a whole bunch of concessions must be made.