Covid-19 discussion thread

[Lolalee1]

Quite ironic considering Australia hasn't been quite as badly affected by the virus as us AFAIK.

At least it's not by Eminem (nor anyone else of his ilk), as his current album bears one of the most morbid and provocative titles ever, 'Music To Be Murdered By' and hardly anyone seems to have batted an eyelid over it since its original release back in January.

All about free expression, innit!!

Yep free expressionCome on Lenco you secretly like Eminem you have mentioned rap in previous posts,plus he and his lyrics are tame compared to some of other hard core rappers

[Lencoboy]

I don’t think Lenco means to normalise or trivialise, but yes / it’s not going down enough really is it.


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I'm definitely not normalising or trivialising the CV situation here in the UK. If I said the opposite, in that I thought it is getting worse every day and we're all doomed, I would be accused of scaremongering and being an outright pessimist (and probably also a liar).

The trouble is, whatever opinions we have concerning COVID-19, we will inevitably be damned. And this virus situation is still very much 'in the lap of the gods' as ATM still only time will tell as to how it's likely to pan out. We can speculate to our heart's content, but the only way we can really minimise the risks of second waves is to continue with the same personal hygiene and basic social distancing practices that have been in place since March, even though restrictions are mostly being eased.

Also people ideally still need to be staying away from beaches, street parties and protests, but sadly many still seem to think that they're untouchable, and would probably be screaming 'police state' at the earliest opportunity whenever challenged!!

[Lencoboy]

Yep free expressionCome on Lenco you secretly like Eminem you have mentioned rap in previous posts,plus he and his lyrics are tame compared to some of other hard core rappers

No, I cannot stand him, nor the genre in general, but that's my choice. And I'm no snowflake/woke/prude either, as I actually sat through a full live set of the late Bernard Manning about 20 years ago when my brother's band opened a show for him, as I was actually there for my brother's band and BM's potty mouth just went over my head at the time!!

And it's equally your prerogative to listen to and enjoy the likes of Eminem and/or hip-hop music in general.

[fishman65]

I was in a B&Ms store this morning which was moderately busy. I was one of about 4 people wearing a mask, very clearly a minority. Do they know something I don't?

The people leaving vast amounts of litter on the beaches, its not like the plastic pollution crisis has been kept hidden. Its so easy to just put it in a bag and find a bin or take it home.

[Lencoboy]

I was in a B&Ms store this morning which was moderately busy. I was one of about 4 people wearing a mask, very clearly a minority. Do they know something I don't?

The people leaving vast amounts of litter on the beaches, its not like the plastic pollution crisis has been kept hidden. Its so easy to just put it in a bag and find a bin or take it home.

Unbelievable isn't it, Fishman!!

I just cannot fathom why people in this country are suddenly going mad and rebelling against authority en masse, especially given how there seemed to be a greater sense of togetherness back in April during the original peak of our outbreak, now it seems to be a 'don't give a monkeys' type of attitude, and that togetherness has now seemingly all but gone down the toilet!!

And people have already started enquiring about holidays abroad, as if they seem completely oblivious to the fact that mainland Europe as a whole is still far from being completely devoid of COVID-19!!

Again, totally unbelievable.

[Pamplemousse]

I was in a B&Ms store this morning which was moderately busy. I was one of about 4 people wearing a mask, very clearly a minority. Do they know something I don't?

Ignorance is bliss, FM65. Besides which, Karen on Facebook told them it's a hoax anyway and they don't know anybody who's caught it so it can't exist.

I now have two boxes of disposable face coverings, pending a return to work later in the year. But I will continue to do as advised by my GP practice and wear them whenever I enter premises and not remove them until I get home, where I can wash my hands and face.

[dorabella]

Unbelievable isn't it, Fishman!!

I just cannot fathom why people in this country are suddenly going mad and rebelling against authority en masse, especially given how there seemed to be a greater sense of togetherness back in April during the original peak of our outbreak, now it seems to be a 'don't give a monkeys' type of attitude, and that togetherness has now seemingly all but gone down the toilet!!

And people have already started enquiring about holidays abroad, as if they seem completely oblivious to the fact that mainland Europe as a whole is still far from being completely devoid of COVID-19!!

Again, totally unbelievable.

At the height of the outbreak when infection and mortality rates were mounting seemingly without end, even the dumbest of the younger generation were scared stiff and it is human nature to cling to anyone or anything to alleviate the panic. The sense of togetherness and helping out your neigbours was just something to do to alleviate the tedium of lockdown. Now things are easing off a bit I'm afraid that the "I'm all right Jack" attitude has re-surfaced. We have a younger generation in this country whose sense of entitlement is scary - coupled with selfishness and self-interest - not a good mix in times like these. I've never quite understood this desire that some of them have to stick two fingers up at authority, and in such a self-righteous and aggressive manner ...

As for the imperative to go on holiday abroad - I just don't get it. It's as if they think it is a basic human right and necessity. But then you know what Noel Coward said ... 'Only mad dogs and Englishmen"!

[Lencoboy]

At the height of the outbreak when infection and mortality rates were mounting seemingly without end, even the dumbest of the younger generation were scared stiff and it is human nature to cling to anyone or anything to alleviate the panic. The sense of togetherness and helping out your neigbours was just something to do to alleviate the tedium of lockdown. Now things are easing off a bit I'm afraid that the "I'm all right Jack" attitude has re-surfaced. We have a younger generation in this country whose sense of entitlement is scary - coupled with selfishness and self-interest - not a good mix in times like these. I've never quite understood this desire that some of them have to stick two fingers up at authority, and in such a self-righteous and aggressive manner ...

As for the imperative to go on holiday abroad - I just don't get it. It's as if they think it is a basic human right and necessity. But then you know what Noel Coward said ... 'Only mad dogs and Englishmen"!

And this ritual 'holidays abroad' obsession (from all age groups) and their perception that the UK is increasingly crap and in terminal decline is kind of self-inflicted IMO, as we are essentially spending our money in those fabled 'far superior' foreign holiday resorts, whilst our own are being ignored and forgotten. And probably the very same camps who get indignant about foreign immigrants coming to live in the UK are the ones who are looking to countries like Spain with rose-tinted specs, and the constant perception that their quality of life is far superior and fairer than ours, which of course isn't always the case, which I find hypocritical in the extreme.

And surely our younger generations have pretty much always got it in the neck for being selfish, entitled and criminally inclined as the expression 'kids today have no respect' has been uttered pretty much since time immemorial. Plus there are also a lot of selfish and entitled older people, but of course they rarely ever make the news!!

[Phill2]

At the height of the outbreak when infection and mortality rates were mounting seemingly without end, even the dumbest of the younger generation were scared stiff and it is human nature to cling to anyone or anything to alleviate the panic. The sense of togetherness and helping out your neigbours was just something to do to alleviate the tedium of lockdown. Now things are easing off a bit I'm afraid that the "I'm all right Jack" attitude has re-surfaced. We have a younger generation in this country whose sense of entitlement is scary - coupled with selfishness and self-interest - not a good mix in times like these. I've never quite understood this desire that some of them have to stick two fingers up at authority, and in such a self-righteous and aggressive manner ...

As for the imperative to go on holiday abroad - I just don't get it. It's as if they think it is a basic human right and necessity. But then you know what Noel Coward said ... 'Only mad dogs and Englishmen"!

I thought it was "mad dogs and cricketers"?

[KK77]

Moved...

All you can do to average out the success rate of a particular yearly flu vaccine is go with the numbers produced by those who study these things. It varies season to season but it generally averages out at between 55%-65% efficacy.

You’re kind of defeating your own argument here to be honest. Surely if they wanted to blow smoke about these vaccines they’d put out far higher success percentages than that? That’s my point, you’re saying that these companies are trying to mislead by calling it a vaccine but on the same hand they’re putting out success rates that are relatively modest.

The idea of flu vaccination is simply trying to reduce the risk of serious illness in those most vulnerable, like older people, babies and those with severe underlying health conditions. I don’t think anyone has ever claimed that the flu vaccine either provides 100% protection or has the ability to eradicate flu entirely.

Again, risk versus benefit. Surely any protection at all is far better than none whatsoever?

So why did you use 65% and not the lower 55% - a statistically significant difference of 10%? And who exactly are "those who study these thing"? I think you know there are massive conflicts of interests at play but refuse to admit it. However, it's vitally important because conflicts of interests equal bias, corruption and subterfuge. So the so-called "evidence" is highly suspect at best.

Big Pharma is not stupid. They know they'd be laughed out of town if they claimed flu shots/vaccines had "far higher success percentages" and there is no evidence to back it. There is, however, evidence pointing to far, far lower "success rates".

I don't know why you class babies as "vulnerable" either. Babies are unlikely to get viruses/illnesses like Hep B until much later (if ever), yet they're immunised at a time when their immune systems are still in developmental stages. As they grow and are gradually exposed to pathogens/antigens in the environment their immune systems create an inventory of antibodies. So to claim babies are in some way "vulnerable" is Big Pharma propaganda, especially now that we live in much more hygienic and sterile conditions. Polio is oft cited by the pro-vax lobby as "proof" that inoculation works, but the reality is that polio disappeared long before any vaccine became available, and this is another piece of propaganda disinformation.

Then there is the matter of vaccine ingredients. In order to attenuate a microbe adjuvants like formaldehyde and aluminium are added. Some still contain thiomersal (toxic mercury compound) and there are often traces of other heavy metals - eg lead and cadmium. Depending on cell lines used there will be animal DNA/RNA and potential contamination with other non-human pathogenic cells. This problem of contamination is very well documented and not refuted by drug companies. Eg, XMRV (a mouse leukaemia virus) is known to have infected many cell cultures used for vaccinations in the past. And there are many more examples and instances of such "unintentional" consequences.

Lastly, there is risk vs harms. If a known pathogen is potentially lethal, with a very high IRF, then perhaps it could be argued that benefits (even if small) outweigh risks. But this is NOT the case with COVID-19, as I have been repeating over and over. The vulnerable should be protected of course, as indeed they are from seasonal flu and other opportunistic infections. But with such a low risk factor to the rest of the healthy population, natural immunity is far preferable to a dummy version of the "virus", which may or may not work, while having serious potential side effects.