Best Treatment - Severe Case

[ankietyjoe]

I would love to do it without meds, but I just can't seem to get anywhere. I honestly think my therapist has confused me. She's got me asking a lot of 'why' questions and looking at my thoughts, and since, I have been stuck in my head ruminating and the thoughts are becoming darker as a consequence.

It's not a case of letting my heart race, or anything like that, it that I'm so confused by my condition now, that I don't know where I stand with it all.

I am totally against medications, but can't get the help in any other way, and am scared of the route I'm heading down, especially as I've always been anxious without the low mood, but now the low mood has come it's worrying me. The symptoms have evolved past anything I knew anxiety could do?

There are a couple of things that you might want to consider right now. First of all, anxiety can and will evolve. Just because you didn't experience low mood before, doesn't mean that experiencing it now is meaningful or significant. It's very common for low mood/depression to co-exist alongside anxiety. I have a suspicion that the therapy you are getting is causing you to over analyse the anxiety and mood you're experiencing, and I'm not sure that has any value. Analysis is the antithesis of mindfulness and acceptance. I don't see how you can successfully do both at the same time.

At the start of my journey with anxiety I received a course of CBT (10 sessions) which I found incredibly useful. In some respects CBT is 'ignore it and it'll go away'. But it is also one of the most successful methods of treating anxiety. Perhaps you should look into CBT sessions instead of (what sounds like) analytical therapy? If your therapist is supposed to be doing CBT with you, I suspect she's not the right therapist for you, in my humble opinion. In my experience of CBT, there was very little in the way of 'why'. It's ok to question a reaction, but going too deep can only ever result in confusion I think.

The current global situation is very oppressive, even if you are ok financially. Sitting indoors all day is not how we are designed to live, and in some respects that alone could be a major contributing factor in the way you are feeling. Not getting enough vitamin D (for example) can be more than enough to cause severe mood changes. Anxiety isn't just stimulus/response. It's bigger picture than that. Your experiences over the last 10-15 years are what got you to this place, not the last few hours.

I'm also against medication as a personal choice. I accept that some people benefit greatly from them, it's just not for me. Knowing that you can recover without may give you some light at the end of the tunnel in the short term.

I think the first thing to do is take a view on your therapy, and whether you can make some adjustments for the better. Is she right for you? Would you benefit more from a different kind of therapy? Do you need a short break from therapy? Are you able to commit time and mental energy into learning about mindfulness and meditation?

[LittleLionMan]

There are a couple of things that you might want to consider right now. First of all, anxiety can and will evolve. Just because you didn't experience low mood before, doesn't mean that experiencing it now is meaningful or significant. It's very common for low mood/depression to co-exist alongside anxiety. I have a suspicion that the therapy you are getting is causing you to over analyse the anxiety and mood you're experiencing, and I'm not sure that has any value. Analysis is the antithesis of mindfulness and acceptance. I don't see how you can successfully do both at the same time.

At the start of my journey with anxiety I received a course of CBT (10 sessions) which I found incredibly useful. In some respects CBT is 'ignore it and it'll go away'. But it is also one of the most successful methods of treating anxiety. Perhaps you should look into CBT sessions instead of (what sounds like) analytical therapy? If your therapist is supposed to be doing CBT with you, I suspect she's not the right therapist for you, in my humble opinion. In my experience of CBT, there was very little in the way of 'why'. It's ok to question a reaction, but going too deep can only ever result in confusion I think.

The current global situation is very oppressive, even if you are ok financially. Sitting indoors all day is not how we are designed to live, and in some respects that alone could be a major contributing factor in the way you are feeling. Not getting enough vitamin D (for example) can be more than enough to cause severe mood changes. Anxiety isn't just stimulus/response. It's bigger picture than that. Your experiences over the last 10-15 years are what got you to this place, not the last few hours.

I'm also against medication as a personal choice. I accept that some people benefit greatly from them, it's just not for me. Knowing that you can recover without may give you some light at the end of the tunnel in the short term.

I think the first thing to do is take a view on your therapy, and whether you can make some adjustments for the better. Is she right for you? Would you benefit more from a different kind of therapy? Do you need a short break from therapy? Are you able to commit time and mental energy into learning about mindfulness and meditation?

I totally agree.
I was just dragging up some meaningless event or situation and obsessing about it until I move on to the next meaningless thing, I did that long enough that I learnt to inspect and take everything seriously. I would lose a few quid on the bookies, and not be able to think about anything else for 5 hours, I had a big job to do at work, and became obsessed with getting it wrong, I had been feeling a bit low, and watched a TV programme that made me a bit sad (After Life, brilliant) and when I felt sad my mind went you're depressed - depression means suicide - what if things get that bad? These things then stick with me and repeat over and over until it forces me into a very low place.

I've effectively taught myself to do the opposite of what I wanted, and now can't bloody get out of it, and it's destroying me. Does that make any sense?

[LittleLionMan]

Anxiety can do awful things to you. The good news, though, is that you've taken the first step.

There's tons of people here to help you, too.

Thank you, it's very much appreciated!

[ankietyjoe]

I totally agree.
I was just dragging up some meaningless event or situation and obsessing about it until I move on to the next meaningless thing, I did that long enough that I learnt to inspect and take everything seriously. I would lose a few quid on the bookies, and not be able to think about anything else for 5 hours, I had a big job to do at work, and became obsessed with getting it wrong, I had been feeling a bit low, and watched a TV programme that made me a bit sad (After Life, brilliant) and when I felt sad my mind went you're depressed - depression means suicide - what if things get that bad? These things then stick with me and repeat over and over until it forces me into a very low place.

I've effectively taught myself to do the opposite of what I wanted, and now can't bloody get out of it, and it's destroying me. Does that make any sense?

Makes perfect sense.

Something I learned a long time ago is that the subconscious struggles to tell the difference between reality and imagination. If you constantly ponder negativity, it will become your reality. This isn't airy fairy pop psychology, it's how we work. I've long thought analytical therapy to be a complete waste of time for anxiety, but at the same time I'm not professionally qualified, so any choice must be yours.

At least research the idea that your imagination can become your reality, we are what we think etc.

Back to meditation and mindfulness...this is the opposite of where you are right now, so delve into that too. For me, meditation was the fundamental practice that cured my anxiety. It's hard, it's not what you think, and it takes practice. It's worth it though.

[LittleLionMan]

Makes perfect sense.

Something I learned a long time ago is that the subconscious struggles to tell the difference between reality and imagination. If you constantly ponder negativity, it will become your reality. This isn't airy fairy pop psychology, it's how we work. I've long thought analytical therapy to be a complete waste of time for anxiety, but at the same time I'm not professionally qualified, so any choice must be yours.

At least research the idea that your imagination can become your reality, we are what we think etc.

Back to meditation and mindfulness...this is the opposite of where you are right now, so delve into that too. For me, meditation was the fundamental practice that cured my anxiety. It's hard, it's not what you think, and it takes practice. It's worth it though.

Definitely.

I've just had an episode now, my mind drifted to 'why do you feel like this', and that was it, an hour of my mind deep in thought, making me feel anxious, but not panicking, about absolutely nothing.

That's what anxiety is though isn't it, the sense of a lion chasing you, when the is not lion, so I'm effectively confused trying to find an invisible lion, and get anxious when I can't find one. It's a nightmare.

I will attempt to get back in to mindfulness as a matter of urgency and see if it helps. The idea of sitting quietly listening to this nonsense is terrifying though! If I could end this constant rumination, questioning and intrusive thoughts, that would leave me in a far better place!

Cheers mate.

[ankietyjoe]

I will attempt to get back in to mindfulness as a matter of urgency and see if it helps. The idea of sitting quietly listening to this nonsense is terrifying though! If I could end this constant rumination, questioning and intrusive thoughts, that would leave me in a far better place!

So a slightly more advanced (chronologically speaking) way of looking at this is further down the line you won't be trying to stop the triggers that lead to uncomfortable sensations, you'll learn to accept them. Going back to your lion analogy, yes...anxiety is a fear response, and you have learned to fear the fear, and fear thought. You can't stop thought, and you can't run from it, so what's left? Acceptance.

The weird paradox is that learning to accept the thoughts eventually prevents them happening in the first place, so your learned acceptance is no longer needed.

"This will pass" is the golden mantra for being mindful and just letting things be. When you feel uncomfortable, just tell yourself it will pass, because it always does.


Try and observe that you mentally run from the uncomfortable thoughts, and try and keep hold of the positive ones. In both cases you are creating mental anguish, as you can't really do either. Sh1t will happen, so just go with the flow. You'll feel a lot better in the long run, guaranteed*


*I offer no guarantee

[LittleLionMan]

So a slightly more advanced (chronologically speaking) way of looking at this is further down the line you won't be trying to stop the triggers that lead to uncomfortable sensations, you'll learn to accept them. Going back to your lion analogy, yes...anxiety is a fear response, and you have learned to fear the fear, and fear thought. You can't stop thought, and you can't run from it, so what's left? Acceptance.

The weird paradox is that learning to accept the thoughts eventually prevents them happening in the first place, so your learned acceptance is no longer needed.

"This will pass" is the golden mantra for being mindful and just letting things be. When you feel uncomfortable, just tell yourself it will pass, because it always does.


Try and observe that you mentally run from the uncomfortable thoughts, and try and keep hold of the positive ones. In both cases you are creating mental anguish, as you can't really do either. Sh1t will happen, so just go with the flow. You'll feel a lot better in the long run, guaranteed*


*I offer no guarantee

Haha, I like the small print at the end!

I've just had a Skype appointment with a Psycologist type woman, and have another on Friday, to try and get the help I need, and will be attempting to do the acceptance side of things in the meantime.

I haven't taken the meds yet, as I really don't want to, and I'm hoping these sessions with this doctor will help level me out instead.

It really does seem that the best way to deal with most anxiety symptoms is to accept it and do bigger all! The only problem I have is that I can't find any actual triggers, it's just seemingly random when I start thinking. Very odd.

[ankietyjoe]

Once anxiety becomes ingrained it doesn't really need triggers. Your CNS is so hyper stimulated all the time it almost becomes self sustaining.

Acceptance is not the act of doing bugger all though. You are best off actively practicing mental habits that rewire your brain away from the anxiety reaction. Acceptance simply means not attaching negative emotion to unpleasant sensations. Looking for triggers is perhaps a side effect of your analytical approach to therapy so far, and not a practice I personally find useful. Your anxiety response is autonomous and looking for triggers on a daily basis is a full time job in itself. And then what if you identify a trigger, what then? That usually means avoiding that trigger....so what if your trigger is leaving the house....? This is how anxiety becomes a disorder, the idea that you can beat it or run from it.

Also take a look at timeframes. Whether you use therapy, meds or self help, recovery takes months. There is no solution that will switch this off quickly, so acceptance is your best friend for now.

[LittleLionMan]

Once anxiety becomes ingrained it doesn't really need triggers. Your CNS is so hyper stimulated all the time it almost becomes self sustaining.

Acceptance is not the act of doing bugger all though. You are best off actively practicing mental habits that rewire your brain away from the anxiety reaction. Acceptance simply means not attaching negative emotion to unpleasant sensations. Looking for triggers is perhaps a side effect of your analytical approach to therapy so far, and not a practice I personally find useful. Your anxiety response is autonomous and looking for triggers on a daily basis is a full time job in itself. And then what if you identify a trigger, what then? That usually means avoiding that trigger....so what if your trigger is leaving the house....? This is how anxiety becomes a disorder, the idea that you can beat it or run from it.

Also take a look at timeframes. Whether you use therapy, meds or self help, recovery takes months. There is no solution that will switch this off quickly, so acceptance is your best friend for now.

Oh yeah, I'm not expecting a quick fix to my anxiety issues, although I would like the feeling down to lift. I might focus more on my running to try and lift my mood. Earphones in, and get myself out of my head on the treadmill, and see if it will take some if the feeling on edge all the time away.

What practicing mental habits do you mean then?

Sound like an anxiety novice don't I, considering I've had it for over 10 years! It's just never come in this form before, and that's what's scaring me.

[ankietyjoe]

Oh yeah, I'm not expecting a quick fix to my anxiety issues, although I would like the feeling down to lift. I might focus more on my running to try and lift my mood. Earphones in, and get myself out of my head on the treadmill, and see if it will take some if the feeling on edge all the time away.

What practicing mental habits do you mean then?

Sound like an anxiety novice don't I, considering I've had it for over 10 years! It's just never come in this form before, and that's what's scaring me.

It took me several years to 'get' anxiety tbh. Just because you suffer with it a while, doesn't mean you have the answers.

In terms of practicing mental habits, there are a few things that work wonders over time.

1) Use mantras, construct your own. One of my favourites was 'this will pass', and this is something I still use from time to time now. If you go out for a run, keep telling yourself that you will recover. It sounds ineffectual, but the subconscious can be re-programmed, and self dialogue is one of the most effective ways of doing this. You are what you think, remember?

2) Meditate. I cannot stress just how effective this can be. I would urge you to read up on what meditation actually is. It is NOT a relaxation technique and it is absolutely NOT about emptying your mind.

3) Acceptance. I'm going to pick you up on something, and that's using running to take the edge off. By all means, exercise, but try not to attach an escape emotion to it. If you feel on edge, accept it. If it doesn't bother you, does it matter? This is hard, and takes practice.

I'll just leave this video here too. I found it after I had mostly recovered from anxiety and I think it's one of the best balances of science, explanation and 'it just works' out there. If you are an analytical type, it gives you a reason to believe in it.