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Thread: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

  1. #31
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    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    Quote Originally Posted by bosmerbeauty View Post
    Anyway a CJD positive patient can contaminate the instruments.
    Not by merely having an instrument touch the eyeball. Prions need to come in direct contact with nerve tissue of the central nervous system. This didn't, couldn't happen with the test you had.

    Australian guidelines do not require special cleaning of instruments which only touch the anterior segment of the eye, i.e. the front exposed third of the eye including the cornea, iris, and sclera (the white outer layer of the eyeball) - see Table 1, Low-infectivity or no detectable infectivity(2). Prions cannot penetrate tissue and make their way to the nervous system on their own.

    Especially since the cases in my province were right in my city. I thought it was 2 but it was 3.
    Two were symptomatic before the surgery, the third seems to be still under investigation. You have not had potentially infected tissue such as a corneal graft implanted, or surgery involving the central nervous system so they are not relevant.

  2. #32
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    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    Ian, I admire your persistence, but I think you're probably bashing your head against a brick wall here.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    I have to say I agree with BlueIris here: having read through this thread it would seem the OP is now unswerving in their position on this matter. The prions are resilient little buggers, not killed by heat or radiation either (source here). I suspect nothing that even @panic_down_under can say will have an effect upon the OP's train of thought.

    vCJD is one of the rarest diseases in the world; even here in the UK which was badly hit by it, in 2014 there were no cases of it (last known figures).

    Hell, I'd even go so far as renaming the thread "Impossible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist"

  4. #34

    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    Quote Originally Posted by panic_down_under View Post
    Not by merely having an instrument touch the eyeball. Prions need to come in direct contact with nerve tissue of the central nervous system. This didn't, couldn't happen with the test you had.

    Australian guidelines do not require special cleaning of instruments which only touch the anterior segment of the eye, i.e. the front exposed third of the eye including the cornea, iris, and sclera (the white outer layer of the eyeball) - see Table 1, Low-infectivity or no detectable infectivity(2). Prions cannot penetrate tissue and make their way to the nervous system on their own.



    Two were symptomatic before the surgery, the third seems to be still under investigation. You have not had potentially infected tissue such as a corneal graft implanted, or surgery involving the central nervous system so they are not relevant.
    Thank you so much for taking time to look this up and provide me with more information instead of just saying "it's your HA get over it".

    It says: "sclera (but not if allogeneic sclera used)" so "allogenic sclera" is not low infectivity or no detectable infectivity but I'm not sure what allogenic means.

    It's difficult for me to fully accept this information (although it has definitely made me feel better) because other literature of studies done say that poorly sanitized probes can contain CJD and it can be transmitted to someone else.

    Here is one example of what I read:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4115807/

    "Contact tonometry, preferred by ophthalmologists, may be capable of transmitting sCJD. Consideration should be given to using disposable instrument covers after each use. The use the disposable covers or non-contact tonometry is preferable in the absence of effective disinfectant processes at this time."

    "The findings indicate that ocular tonometry may be an important iatrogenic method of transmission of the infectious agent for sCJD."

    I read other studies with the same findings.

  5. #35

    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamplemousse View Post
    I have to say I agree with BlueIris here: having read through this thread it would seem the OP is now unswerving in their position on this matter. The prions are resilient little buggers, not killed by heat or radiation either (source here). I suspect nothing that even @panic_down_under can say will have an effect upon the OP's train of thought.

    vCJD is one of the rarest diseases in the world; even here in the UK which was badly hit by it, in 2014 there were no cases of it (last known figures).

    Hell, I'd even go so far as renaming the thread "Impossible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist"
    You suspect wrong. Wow some people are really insensitive and rude on this forum.

    @panic_down_under is the first one to actually offer more than "it's just your HA! You must be happy with that! You're in a rabbit hole!" -- so thank you to @panic_down_under for actually having a conversation about this with me and offering alternate information for me to consider.

  6. #36
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    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    I'm sorry for being brutal. I appreciate you must be terrified right now, however, the thing that always helped me with my crippling health anxiety was a swift kick up the metaphorical rear. I wasn't trying to dismiss you, I was trying to encourage you to see another perspective.

    I still think you're being very irrational, but I know how tough it can be when the fear has a hold and I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
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  7. #37

    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueIris View Post
    I'm sorry for being brutal. I appreciate you must be terrified right now, however, the thing that always helped me with my crippling health anxiety was a swift kick up the metaphorical rear. I wasn't trying to dismiss you, I was trying to encourage you to see another perspective.

    I still think you're being very irrational, but I know how tough it can be when the fear has a hold and I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
    It's okay. It's understandable. I have HA but I'm also a factual analytical person. I'm not totally off the bandwagon. I know I worry more than the typical person but not all my worries are senseless. If a doctor said to anybody "I'm going to use a tool that's not been cleaned properly" no one would be agreeable to that. That's just common sense and not HA driven.

    I know that although an unclean instrument was used on my eye and my son's eye, it likely did not have CJD because it's so rare. I get this and find a bit of peace in that. But of course it's not 100%.

    The tonometer that he used on our eyes was the one that touches the sclera (white part of the eye) and I know there are other tonometers that touch the cornea. I think the sclera is less risk than the cornea which helps me feel a bit better. It's also quite possible that the studies I've read were testing the tonometers that touch the cornea.

  8. #38
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    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    I get you, I think. I also like facts and being aware of concrete risks, but what's helped me more than anything is learning to accept uncertainty.

    Yes, I'll acknowledge that if the information you've given me is accurate (and you seem smart enough to be able to pick the right sources), there's a hypothetical risk there. However, my gut instinct is that if this was going to be a vector for the disease it would have happened by now. Somebody has to be the first for everything, but that doesn't make it likely.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Possible vCJD Transmission after seeing my optometrist

    Quote Originally Posted by bosmerbeauty View Post
    Here is one example of what I read:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4115807/
    Which is a lot of estimates, maybes, 'could bes' and hypotheses mixed with what I call brain farts all of which don't amount to much, imo. Firstly, they fail to demonstrate that prions reside on the exterior of infected corneas and transfer from them to the probe, then can move from the probe to the next patient's cornea and penetrate into it to infect the eye and subsequently the central nervous system. Nor does there appear to be a single case of this ever having happened. I also point out that you said in the OP that the probe hit the white of the eye (sclera), not the cornea. Of all the ways you might meet your end this is up there with being hit on the head by space junk.

    My advice, step away from the computer and go and have some fun with your boy. It will be much better for both of you than scaring yourself needlessly with Dr Google's diagnoses. It is a quack.

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