The vaccine

[Gary A]

Exactly this Terry. Edward Jenner and his curiosity over why milk maids never seemed to contract smallpox. He found that when they contracted cowpox from the cows, a milder disease than smallpox, this provided cross immunity. Jenner died in 1823, so unless CTs go back as far as this, I don't see why people are so fearful of a Covid jab. Covid the disease or Covid the vaccine, I know which one I'd choose.

Not only that, he literally took pus from an open wound and applied it to someone to give immunity.

[Fishmanpa]

My thoughts on it are mixed. Just based on previous vaccine timelines and even taking into account the accelerated timeline of development is that its possible to have a vaccine out by the end of the year. That said, there's a lot of "IFs" involved. The key is that it doesn't cause ill effects. Even if its 50% effective and doesn't cause serious side effects, that's a positive. There's no way they're going to manufacture millions and millions of doses that quickly so initially, the front line workers will be the guinea pigs. They'll be able to tweak it from there and we're realistically looking at Spring or Summer of '21 before its widely available.

Concerning if I'll get it?.... I'll listen to the medical and scientific experts.

Positive thoughts

[ankietyjoe]

I think what a lot of people are missing here is that the ramifications of not having a vaccine aren't actually about public health as they are 'the end of civilisation as we know it'.

It might sound melodramatic, but without the vaccine the kind of lockdowns we are seeing now will have to occur on an ad hoc basis for several years. I'm not one to worship the economy, but without the vaccine life as we know it WILL be over. It might be better on the other side, who knows, but changes will be enormous.

But, to just poo poo vaccinations because 'I'm anti vaccination' is just pure, concentrated ignorance.

[MrLondon86]

Thankfully the anti-vax movement is losing a lot of steam with a bunch of science/medically-literate Youtube channels debunking their claims with thoroughly explained videos and evidence. I've yet to see a virologist or microbiologist saying vaccines don't work or cause all these problems these ct's claim they do, however these anti-vaxxers love to peddle disinformation from people that have bought their fake doctorate and their pseudo homeopathic medicines. Just like flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers will fizzle out.

[Gary A]

I think what a lot of people are missing here is that the ramifications of not having a vaccine aren't actually about public health as they are 'the end of civilisation as we know it'.

It might sound melodramatic, but without the vaccine the kind of lockdowns we are seeing now will have to occur on an ad hoc basis for several years. I'm not one to worship the economy, but without the vaccine life as we know it WILL be over. It might be better on the other side, who knows, but changes will be enormous.

But, to just poo poo vaccinations because 'I'm anti vaccination' is just pure, concentrated ignorance.

The most ill informed argument I’ve witnessed amongst friends of mine and work colleagues is the whole “they have a flu vaccine but people still die from flu, so what’s the point.”

Guess what folks, when we have a Covid vaccine people will still die from Covid. This all or nothing “thinking” is just another piece of propaganda pushed by the anti-vax movement.

Vaccines aren’t magic, they are literally a trick played on your body to make it think it is being invaded by a particular pathogen when in reality it isn’t. How your body responds is an absolute minefield. Generally, if a vaccine causes little to no adverse effects and is around 50% effective then it is approved.

In what universe is 50% protection equated with no protection at all? It’s pretty much accepted that the early Covid vaccines will offer protection as far as reducing symptoms but may fall short in fully blocking the virus itself. Again, if this virus infects you while only being capable of producing mild symptoms at worst, then that’s an absolute win isn’t it?

[fishman65]

The most ill informed argument I’ve witnessed amongst friends of mine and work colleagues is the whole “they have a flu vaccine but people still die from flu, so what’s the point.”

Guess what folks, when we have a Covid vaccine people will still die from Covid. This all or nothing “thinking” is just another piece of propaganda pushed by the anti-vax movement.

Vaccines aren’t magic, they are literally a trick played on your body to make it think it is being invaded by a particular pathogen when in reality it isn’t. How your body responds is an absolute minefield. Generally, if a vaccine causes little to no adverse effects and is around 50% effective then it is approved.

In what universe is 50% protection equated with no protection at all? It’s pretty much accepted that the early Covid vaccines will offer protection as far as reducing symptoms but may fall short in fully blocking the virus itself. Again, if this virus infects you while only being capable of producing mild symptoms at worst, then that’s an absolute win isn’t it?

Precisely Gary. The 50% figure makes it sound as though its half-baked but is misleading. I'd take a 50% effective vaccine any day when, as you say, symptoms and damaging effects will likely be much reduced.

In today's DM was an article about levels of antibodies falling rapidly and the possibility of being re-infected as with the common cold. This got me on a real downer until Dr Campbell's video today when he reminded us that people infected with Sars Cov 1 in 2002/03 still have memory and killer T-cells to this day. He expects our Covid to be no different as the two are very similar. I hope he's right.

[Lencoboy]

Precisely Gary. The 50% figure makes it sound as though its half-baked but is misleading. I'd take a 50% effective vaccine any day when, as you say, symptoms and damaging effects will likely be much reduced.

In today's DM was an article about levels of antibodies falling rapidly and the possibility of being re-infected as with the common cold. This got me on a real downer until Dr Campbell's video today when he reminded us that people infected with Sars Cov 1 in 2002/03 still have memory and killer T-cells to this day. He expects our Covid to be no different as the two are very similar. I hope he's right.

I personally wonder whether or not the very few alleged Covid reinfections might actually have been more to do with 'long Covid', which we have only recently started to become more aware of and possibly mistaken for reinfections, or at least some of them?

[Gary A]

Precisely Gary. The 50% figure makes it sound as though its half-baked but is misleading. I'd take a 50% effective vaccine any day when, as you say, symptoms and damaging effects will likely be much reduced.

In today's DM was an article about levels of antibodies falling rapidly and the possibility of being re-infected as with the common cold. This got me on a real downer until Dr Campbell's video today when he reminded us that people infected with Sars Cov 1 in 2002/03 still have memory and killer T-cells to this day. He expects our Covid to be no different as the two are very similar. I hope he's right.

The antibody studies and the sensationalistic headlines attached to them are utter drivel. The immune system has so many different arms that to instantly dismiss longer term immunity due to declining antibody levels is just amateur hour, it really is.

The only way to confirm longer term immunity is to test for reinfection. Think of how many millions of infections there have been worldwide. How many cases of reinfection have been reported? And I mean true reinfection, not reactivation. 4? 5 maybe?

Naturally acquired immunity to this virus is almost certain to last at least a year, possibly longer, but what would happen if that was made public? People who assumed, without confirmed testing, that they had the virus would flout any rules because they would believe they were immune.

Very few viruses give short term immunity, and it’s almost always the case that the milder the virus the shorter term the immunity is. When the media compare SARS-COV-2 to coronaviruses that cause common colds they’re being utterly disingenuous.

[Gary A]

I personally wonder whether or not the very few alleged Covid reinfections might actually have been more to do with 'long Covid', which we have only recently started to become more aware of and possibly mistaken for reinfections, or at least some of them?

There have been around 4 or 5 actual reinfections, whereby the offending virus was sequenced and confirmed as a different strain than the previous. If the two strains and sequences are the same that’s not reinfection, that’s reactivation.

It’s really not a question anymore, reinfection from SARS-COV-2 within one year at least is almost an impossibility.

[Lencoboy]

Thankfully the anti-vax movement is losing a lot of steam with a bunch of science/medically-literate Youtube channels debunking their claims with thoroughly explained videos and evidence. I've yet to see a virologist or microbiologist saying vaccines don't work or cause all these problems these ct's claim they do, however these anti-vaxxers love to peddle disinformation from people that have bought their fake doctorate and their pseudo homeopathic medicines. Just like flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers will fizzle out.

It does seem like a lot of the anti-vaxxers and CTers in general are like crazed religious lunatics with extremist agendas.

There has already been speculation about security being beefed up at major hospitals that may be the first to administer the first Covid vaccines in order to keep the places from being hijacked by baying mobs of protesting antivaxxers and CTers.