Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

[ankietyjoe]

Ah that's means I have to use Facebook. I guess for "business" it's ok. I don't have an Elektron, but I'm fairly good with finger drumming.

I'll give this a shot, thank you

Take the tinfoil hat off. Facebook is fine lol.

Do you not have the Model Samples any more?

[NoraB]

In terms of supernatural experiences, no. Not for me.

Interesting that Joe, because every sceptic I've personally 'spoken' to says that they've never had a paranormal experience. Then there are people who've been sceptics for years, then they've had experiences which caused them to waver in their belief. I'd say it's easy to disbelieve and presume non-paranormal causes minus a paranormal experience, whereas it's much harder to disbelieve after such an experience and for a number of reasons - but the main ones are the transformative and comfort factors. People can be close to taking their own lives - spirit 'intervenes' - and they are able to carry on - enjoy life even - because they know that their loved ones are ok. Can science offer this kind of comfort? Nope. Science offers the 'grieving brain' theory as one of many etc - only I was 6 when my grandmother died. I hardly remember her, and it was 7 years later when she came to visit me - so the grieving brain theory doesn't fit.

[/QUOTE] For me, the reaction your son had in the bath was because of a triggered memory. Perhaps your mother bathed him once and he remembered something specific, I have no idea what the trigger was, but MY training has shown multiple examples of this being the case. Now I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that's my interpretation.[/QUOTE]

My mother never bathed my son as she was pretty much off her tits on codeine for the majority of those 2 years (hip pain) - interesting theory though.

In terms of your experience I have another theory too. I have seen my partner literally turn into a completely different person before my eyes. Certain stimuli will cause her to default to a discreet identity, and she will often see, hear, feel, smell the outside world as it was 5, 10 years ago. She will be a different person, and she will perceive different things around her. We know now that the body can store memory just as well as the mind, and in fact the two cannot really be separated as the brain/body connection works on a feedback loop. Thoughts and emotions are fundamentally the same thing. What I think happened (and again, my opinion is meaningless in the grand scheme of things) is that certain triggers can create a kind of critical mass in a persons psyche and in effect 'replay' emotions, thoughts and feelings from the past. DID is the ultimate incarnation of this, it's a completely lucid re-enactment of the past. The person doesn't think they are there, they are there.

That's actually very interesting!

So does this discredit your experience? Well no, absolutely not. For all I know your Grandmother could have wafted through the room as an energy field and interacted with your own physical state and triggered a replay in you. Maybe THAT is what ghosts are. I don't believe that to be the case but I can't tell you that it didn't happen either. But it does go back to the point about DID, where sufferers absolutely KNOW something is happening that isn't actually happening.

What you've said is very interesting - so thanks for that.

When it comes to 'ghosts' - I saw a child (seemingly a girl) at the bottom of our stairs, only I couldn't see her legs. A few weeks later, my brother and I watched someone walk across the landing and there was nobody there, so, if I'm a nutter - so is he lol. A year later, we moved house and my mum told me that a little girl had died in our house - in my room most likely - because she fell down the stairs and hit her head on the tiled floor. For some unknown reason, her mother put her to bed and the child, sadly, never woke up. To my knowledge, that was the first I knew of this, but it's entirely possible that I did know on a subconscious level. However, that does not explain what my brother and I saw at the same time. I've spoken to my other brother about it recently and he told me that he saw someone reflected in his bedroom window when he was a child, and it freaked him out, so he told my dad who laughed the whole thing off, but I wonder if he saw that little girl too? Obviously you will have a different theory...

Then, finally. We have the Multiverse. The idea that ALL possible outcomes of ALL possible scenarios are happening simultaneously, all the time.

Yeah. Brain melting stuff. But I'm talking about the spirit world which is all around us (like air is around us) and it's why my gran was able to 'waft' (love that, if you knew my grandma you'd understand why this made me giggle) into my bedroom one December morning - 3am to be exact - which is why sceptics generally go with the 'you were asleep, you daft cow' theory. Only I wasn't asleep because something woke me up, and that in itself was a one off 'malfunction' that never happened again.

The question is really if science has an explanation for supernatural experiences, does that make them any less supernatural?

Science can only come up with theories as to why these things happen but experiences are what changes opinions and lives.

[WiredIncorrectly]

Take the tinfoil hat off. Facebook is fine lol.

Do you not have the Model Samples any more?

I just don't like to support companies that have foul business practices. But I realize it's a source of traffic and there's no avoiding that.

And yeah of course. Most of my drums are done with it. But sometimes if I'm in the DAW and its not connected I've got loads of resampled drums I've done with it. Very useful. Haven't figured out how to configure it with FL yet.

Next on my list is a Tempest. I need to make some money from my hobby to invest.

[ankietyjoe]

Science can only come up with theories as to why these things happen but experiences are what changes opinions and lives.

I just have to pick up on this one line, and say that this just isn't accurate. Science can come up with theories AND stone cold facts. The idea that science is just one opinion just isn't accurate at all. And experiences don't alter those facts. When science turns a theory into a fact it does so under controlled, repeatable and measurable conditions. Variables are taken out of the equation to the best possible accuracy. This isn't usually the case with an experience, which may be interpreted in several different ways.

This is why we have televisions and antibiotics, to name but a few things. Oh, and RNA vaccines....

I just don't like to support companies that have foul business practices. But I realize it's a source of traffic and there's no avoiding that.

And yeah of course. Most of my drums are done with it. But sometimes if I'm in the DAW and its not connected I've got loads of resampled drums I've done with it. Very useful. Haven't figured out how to configure it with FL yet.

Next on my list is a Tempest. I need to make some money from my hobby to invest.

Dude, all companies have foul business practices on one level or another. No point cutting off your nose to spite your face.

In terms of the Samples, live performance videos are pretty popular on Youtube, assuming you can get them posted to the right places.

[NoraB]

I just have to pick up on this one line, and say that this just isn't accurate. Science can come up with theories AND stone cold facts.

Of course, but I'm talking about the paranormal which by definition means impossible to explain by science.

However, there have been (and continue to be) many experiments conducted by prominent scientists - many of whom have accepted that there is an afterlife after investigating the evidence for it.

When science turns a theory into a fact it does so under controlled, repeatable and measurable conditions. Variables are taken out of the equation to the best possible accuracy. This isn't usually the case with an experience, which may be interpreted in several different ways.

Witness statements count in a court of law which means that someone's experience counts. I witnessed these things - visually and with my other senses. On one occasion there were two eye-witnesses, me and my brother who saw the same 'person' at the same time. Were we both having a psychotic episode? Or having an identical 'real, but only real to us' experience?

The difference between you and me, Joe, is that I understand that the most profound aspects of life do not require scientific validation to be real, and real as in real - not just real to me. The fact that experiences like mine happen to people all over the world, and from all walks of life, suggests something much bigger is going on.

Some prominent doctors and surgeons (people of science) have risked their careers because they've spoken publicly about the near death experiences which completely changed the way they look at death and dying. It was their profound experiences which changed them - and what they experienced goes against everything that science has taught them. So it would appear that experience trumps science?

Maybe the evidence of doctors with a load of letters after their name holds more weight? What I do know is that it is one in the eye for those hard-line (and somewhat deluded) sceptics who think people who believe in the afterlife, or in ghosts etc are intellectually 'challenged'.

As you can probably guess, I've locked horns with a few such people in my time - and mostly because I was pissed off that there were 'sceptics' on a spiritual forum. I wanted to talk to like-minded people - not to have defend my beliefs to someone who called me stupid because I believe that consciousness survives death. Then again, there were sceptics like yourself who offered thought-provoking arguments and were not at all abusive. I came to appreciated their input. I still can't work out why a sceptic would want to join a spiritual forum, but I also think that it was, in general, a plus. Certainly not boring lol.
I tell you something... some of those 'love 'n' lighters' can't half swear!

[ankietyjoe]

The difference between you and me, Joe, is that I understand that the most profound aspects of life do not require scientific validation to be real, and real as in real - not just real to me. The fact that experiences like mine happen to people all over the world, and from all walks of life, suggests something much bigger is going on.

And that's why this conversation (and that's all it is) must stop. This isn't the first time you've made a presumption about the way I see things and that I MUST have a scientific explanation for something. I have mentioned it in this thread AND declared in other threads that I'm starting to believe in 'the field', and that there is a greater force at work than we can currently detect, let alone understand or describe.

Given that your standpoint about my perspective is fundamentally flawed, I respectfully retreat from the debate.

[WiredIncorrectly]

Here here folks. Within this thread all debate and thrashing is allowed. Outside this thread (or any debate thread) we're all homies and love each other as fellow human beings. It's super important a differing of opinions does not damage friendships.

Spread the love.

[ankietyjoe]

There's no hard feelings here J. I just can't partake in a conversation where my standpoint is presumed different than it actually is. It's pointless, so I bow out.

No feelings have been hurt. Hence the big fat smiley.

[WiredIncorrectly]

Next article for my blog "How to argue constructively". This one will require some learning and self introspection

[NoraB]

And that's why this conversation (and that's all it is) must stop. This isn't the first time you've made a presumption about the way I see things and that I MUST have a scientific explanation for something. I have mentioned it in this thread AND declared in other threads that I'm starting to believe in 'the field', and that there is a greater force at work than we can currently detect, let alone understand or describe.

Given that your standpoint about my perspective is fundamentally flawed, I respectfully retreat from the debate.

That's quite a reaction Joe..

I'm responding to your own words on a thread where you've stated that 'there ain't no God' and you've given me non-paranormal theories on my experiences - which I have clearly said that I appreciate. Food for thought and all that. If I've misinterpreted your comments then I apologise, but I have to say that I'm surprised you've backed out of what could have been a decent debate. However, your call and all that.