Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

[ankietyjoe]

Joe, ask Google "Is a theory a fact". Your argument is flawed because you assume that a theory is fact.

We could dance around this for decades. You know what you mean, I know what I mean.

For example, I already said somewhere else up there ^^^^ that I questioned the Big Bang theory. We know 'it' happened', we just don't know exactly how, let alone why. But we do know it happened.

You're assuming that I think a theory is a fact, and I didn't even hint that's what I thought.

And Nora, I'm not talking about studies, I'm talking about repeatable and measurable scientific tests with predictable results. Studies are 'let's see what happens here' based on a random/control set of criteria.

We live in an age where the word 'opinion' has more gravitas that fact. Facts are still powerful, especially when they are actually facts. Yes, facts DO exist.

[WiredIncorrectly]

But we don't know the Big Bang happened. It isn't fact. If it was defacto there wouldn't be other theories. You only have to do a Google search to find out the problems with the Big Bang Hypothesis.

I'm not arguing God vs. Science. I am not trying to prove or disprove the Big Bang Theory. But you can be religious, and still trust science. There's a deep misconception in the world that people feel it has to be science vs. God. Both can and should co-exist.

Interesting fact ... the algebra and a lot of math we use in science came from a Muslim scholar called Al-Khwarizmi.

[WiredIncorrectly]

To my knowledge science has been excellent in working out what happened to the universe after it came into being but not before - which leaves the window wide open for a designer/creator or 'God'.

Very well put.

[ankietyjoe]

But we don't know the Big Bang happened. It isn't fact. If it was defacto there wouldn't be other theories. You only have to do a Google search to find out the problems with the Big Bang Hypothesis.

I'm not arguing God vs. Science. I am not trying to prove or disprove the Big Bang Theory. But you can be religious, and still trust science. There's a deep misconception in the world that people feel it has to be science vs. God. Both can and should co-exist.

Interesting fact ... the algebra and a lot of math we use in science came from a Muslim scholar called Al-Khwarizmi.

You have too much faith in Google......

Anyway, I've made the same point several times. Me saying 'the Big Bang happened' is me saying 'something happened'. That really is indisputable. I have already stated several times that I didn't pay much credence to the idea that an explosion of matter happened out of nothing.

And as for the 'nothing' that occured before, so it 'must' be God....well I don't go for that either. I genuinely thought over 20 years ago that the only real explanation was that the bang/expansion was cyclical.

This is what I consider to be closest to a 'truth', with not a whiff of divine intervention involved.

[WiredIncorrectly]

You have too much faith in Google......

Joe, Google is akin to a library, except it's all in one place. As humans we have the advantage of being able to quickly Google things. Where else should one obtain their data given libraries are closed? If you don't Google search you're missing out mate.

Most of the time when I say "search Google" I mean Google Scholar. Which, if you didn't know is a source of scientific papers.

Anyway it's clear we disagree in our beliefs and we shall no longer kick this can down the road. This argument exists in many forms on millions of forums and has existed for uncountable centuries before us.

If that truth is in fact false than what has it cost me? At worst it's cost me time during prayer ... but prayer is as helpful to me as meditation is to you, so it's not waste. What else? I gave up pork. That's not something I miss. I don't drink alcohol anyway.

If it's false at the very least, I can say that since I became Muslim I've lead a good, clean, life.

But I don't doubt Islam. I'm 100% committed to my faith. Arguing against that is futile Joe.

[ankietyjoe]

I'm not arguing against your faith. I see value in prayer and a common belief of something bigger than yourself.

However, I just don't believe in a 'God'.

Personally, I don't need religion or text to do what I believe is the right thing. I have a big mouth sometimes and I shout a lot, but everything I do is designed to help for the good or stop something for the bad. Here, and IRL. I've always felt uneasy that people en masse (no pun) require constant guidance not to be assh0les.

If anything religion should be nothing more than an agreed upon set of moral values (which it claims to be but rarely is) and a celebration of the bigger Universe. I don't know where the idea of a God started, as we really don't have proof that one exists. Anecdotal stories in books that are thousands of years old aren't proof.

[WiredIncorrectly]

I'm not arguing against your faith. I see value in prayer and a common belief of something bigger than yourself.

However, I just don't believe in a 'God'.

Personally, I don't need religion or text to do what I believe is the right thing. I have a big mouth sometimes and I shout a lot, but everything I do is designed to help for the good or stop something for the bad. Here, and IRL. I've always felt uneasy that people en masse (no pun) require constant guidance not to be assh0les.

If anything religion should be nothing more than an agreed upon set of moral values (which it claims to be but rarely is) and a celebration of the bigger Universe. I don't know where the idea of a God started, as we really don't have proof that one exists. Anecdotal stories in books that are thousands of years old aren't proof.

I hear you Joe. I'm somebody who takes things the wrong way, and sometimes to heart. I do it both here, and in real life.

I'm slowly learning how to debate properly without letting emotions get to me. I can be a stubborn a$$ at times. I stay away from the COVID forum

On another note if you fancy doing a collab on a beat I'm up for it. You send me your MIDI and samples and I'll utilize them. I ditched Ableton for Fruity Loops and I feel like a noob now. I knew Ableton inside out. I like the piano roll on FL. I've got to take the novation apart to fix that clunky key, it works fine but it does my head in ha ha.

[WiredIncorrectly]

I'm still working on creating a VST. I started with JUCE but wasn't happy with their licensing and pricing so I'm currently learning iPlug2. The documentation can be a bit terse and difficult to understand. You've mostly got to look through the source code and figure it out.

I'm working on an 808 plugin. 808 basses seem to be very popular in Trap, Drill, Grime. I don't think you can really call them "808's" anymore as most basses people call 808's are actually sine waves thrown at a brick wall limited and distortion to bring out the mid harmonics. Programming that is a different story. There are code libraries that already implement this but I'm trying to do it from scratch.

[ankietyjoe]

Haha, I would rather accept God than accept FL Studio. Hate, it.

An 808 plugin might do well if you can get it out quick enough. It's the post/support side of things that you'll really need to keep on top of though. The plugin community are like attention hungry jackals.

[NoraB]

Bringing this back to the original topic (coming from me - the Queen of digression) and because I literally have no idea what you and Joe are on about in the above posts!

Anyhoo, in my time, I've dipped my toe in the atheism pool. I've read Dawkins et al but my unwillingness to accept 'God' was born out of the struggle to comprehend that this 'all loving' creator could allow terrible things to happen to good people. I had a proper wobble after 9/11. But atheism never sat right with me because there are so many questions that it cannot successfully answer - the fine-tuning, and sheer complexity of this universe and everything in it for a start.

It's also interesting how many atheists are not really atheists. My father and father-in-law for starters. Both 'atheists' but when it came to them knowing they were dying - my dad had my mother go out and buy a bible and my FIL had a conversation with a hospice nurse where he said to her. 'I'm worried that I've made a big mistake with God'.

In my FIL's case, atheism was understandable because he served in Northern Ireland in the 70s and what he witnessed there was enough to shake anybody's belief in a 'loving' creator. I don't know about my dad and how he came to the conclusion that God doesn't exist but he definitely didn't die an atheist. This suggests that both of them, deep down, believed in 'God'. So how many people are like this and how many genuinely do not believe in God?

When it comes to the scientific method and people not believing in God because science cannot prove 'his' existence - there are other things which we accept, but which cannot be scientifically measured.

Also, when people say that science is the only way in knowing the truth - how can that statement be proved by science?

Just because some things are beyond the realm of science and it's limitations, it doesn't, by any means, disprove their existence - nor does it make them any less important.