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Thread: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

  1. #21
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    Try not to read religious texts too literally. They've had thousands of years of editing, interpretation and bias baked into them.
    Yes, and these books were produced at a time when science had yet to flourish and superstition was rife. If they were written much later they would be very different.

    They purport to be from God but wouldn't this deity have some concept of what we now take for granted in our knowledge? I'm not trying to argue they don't exist but I may be more open to an argument that little was given to man and a lot he improvised with based on the knowledge levels of the time.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    Yes, and these books were produced at a time when science had yet to flourish and superstition was rife. If they were written much later they would be very different.

    They purport to be from God but wouldn't this deity have some concept of what we now take for granted in our knowledge? I'm not trying to argue they don't exist but I may be more open to an argument that little was given to man and a lot he improvised with based on the knowledge levels of the time.
    But, Terry you do understand that both religion, and science require the same blind faith? Take the theory of the big bang, which other theories sit on top of. It requires blind faith or a time machine to back to the beginning of the universe to find out what actually happened.

    People forget for the most part science is just discovery of what is already there. Science is the measurement and observation and study of everything around us. Put there and created by the grand maker of the Universe, God.

    Big bang, it's a theory. Evolution, it's a theory. And give it 100 years Newtonian physics will be on it's backside and Quantum Physics will be the new. 100 years from then they'll probably be manipulating quarks on screens to produce real life objects. Our theories of today will be nothing but fossils of the past.

    My point is your belief in a theory isn't anything different from a belief in God. You can appreciate and understand and marvel and the works of science ... and still be religious. Like me.

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  3. #23
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    4 years ago, the majority voted in Trump.

    I don't believe in God, I'm starting to believe in 'The Field'.

    God is an interpretation of what science currently cannot describe.
    Or Science is the observation of what is already around us put there by God

    Trump is human. He is flawed from birth. I don't put my trust in other humans with power. The only power I put my trust in is the Universe/God.

    The Field is a great book. Are you reading it at the moment. I've got that one. I'll dig out all of my philosophy and spiritual books and list them. I've got loads if you're getting into this. These books led me to God believe it or not.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredIncorrectly View Post
    But, Terry you do understand that both religion, and science require the same blind faith? Take the theory of the big bang, which other theories sit on top of. It requires blind faith or a time machine to back to the beginning of the universe to find out what actually happened.

    People forget for the most part science is just discovery of what is already there. Science is the measurement and observation and study of everything around us. Put there and created by the grand maker of the Universe, God.

    Big bang, it's a theory. Evolution, it's a theory. And give it 100 years Newtonian physics will be on it's backside and Quantum Physics will be the new. 100 years from then they'll probably be manipulating quarks on screens to produce real life objects. Our theories of today will be nothing but fossils of the past.

    My point is your belief in a theory isn't anything different from a belief in God. You can appreciate and understand and marvel and the works of science ... and still be religious. Like me.

    I think you have a fundamental (and somewhat surprising) lack of understanding of what's behind scientific theory. The big bang theory is based on solid observation and mathematics. It DID happen, but the only part that was theory was why/how. The only theoretic part of it was the idea that it 'just happened' out of nothing.

    Evolution is absolutely not a theory, you can see it happening throughout time, but again the mechanism was slightly misunderstood. Animals don't change to suit the environment, it's the environment that selects the fittest and most adaptive to IT'S whims.

    Science does not require a blind leap of faith at all. Science is based on predictable and measurable phenomenon. If it can't be measured, weighed or repeated etc, it's not science, it's just an idea. It's the ideas that turn into science that require a leap of faith. This is a different kind of faith than believing in a God, because the latter has never been seen or proven. It exists based on endless faith.





    Quote Originally Posted by WiredIncorrectly View Post
    Or Science is the observation of what is already around us put there by God

    The Field is a great book. Are you reading it at the moment. I've got that one. I'll dig out all of my philosophy and spiritual books and list them. I've got loads if you're getting into this. These books led me to God believe it or not.

    That's only the interpretation of somebody who believes in a God, and I don't.

    I'm not really getting into the field now. The idea of something that explains religion has always been there for me. In my mind I 'know' that anybody with a religious faith is barking up the wrong tree, but I also know that religion isn't there for nothing. There is 'something' out there, but I just don't know what.

    One thing that I am starting to see merit in is the idea of manifested creation, but not in the way that it's presented in some of the frankly nonsensical law off attraction books. Take America for example. In some respects you look at America in the same way that you look at an episode of Gotham. It seems to exist in it's own bubble of insanity, but is that because of the collective psyche of the population there? Are they creating the reality that happens around them? I have no idea, but I do know that there was a reaction to the film 'The Matrix' from the Buddhist community as they say there peacefully screaming 'we've been saying this for centuries'.

    I remember having a conversation with my physics teacher in 1985 and telling him the big bang simply couldn't have happened, and he had no answer. I read 'Brief History of Time' a decade later, off my tits on skunk. It was then that I KNEW that it didn't happen as described. And here we are another 25 years later and science is pretending they never suggested that it did. I'm still not sure what happened (well duh), but it's quite enjoyable finding out.

    But, there ain't no God out there

  5. #25
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    I don't believe science requires blind faith. Science may not be able to explain and draws some potential conclusions but for the most part it applies testing to remove it.

    I do agree that much is there for discovery, and still is, but why it's there? I'm not ruling out the possibility of a creator, I'm a soft agnostic, but I'm just not convinced by religion. The creator might be onto it's billionth new build and we are long forgotten about. It might check in from time to time and be shaking it's head over our lack of movement towards electric vehicles after being impressed by our Sinclair C5.

    But I also can't rule out a Bill & Ted with religion. If in the future we invent a time travelling phone box our future selves might have gone back and set up religion. Couldn't modern man be perceived as a God in times where we knew little of science?

    I think if God had appeared in more recent centuries man would have applied more scientific reasoning. Magicians perform illusions like walking on water. Healing would be examined using medical journals that contain illnesses that are psychosomatic. Noah's boat might have a casino in it
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  6. #26
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    I think you have a fundamental (and somewhat surprising) lack of understanding of what's behind scientific theory. The big bang theory is based on solid observation and mathematics. It DID happen, but the only part that was theory was why/how.
    I have a great understanding of Science Joe. I'm an monthly subscriber to New Scientist. I love Science.

    The Big Bang theory remains a theory. It is absolutely not fact and to take is as defacto truth would be go against Science. The earliest evidence is based on hubbles law, which itself is questioned by scientists: https://phys.org/news/2019-07-scient...ms-hubble.html

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    The only theoretic part of it was the idea that it 'just happened' out of nothing.
    See, you've just proved there is something questionable, and something unsolved about the idea of something coming from nothing. But, you'll chose to believe the Big Bang Theory and hope one day science will solve it.

    A theory relies on other theories to support its conclusion. If one of the theories are wrong, and it's very possible they could be, then the entire theory collapses.

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    Evolution is absolutely not a theory, you can see it happening throughout time, but again the mechanism was slightly misunderstood. Animals don't change to suit the environment, it's the environment that selects the fittest and most adaptive to IT'S whims.
    You'll only know this to be true if you yourself had a time machine. Otherwise you are relying on the knowledge of others without knowing the knowledge yourself and trusting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    Science does not require a blind leap of faith at all. Science is based on predictable and measurable phenomenon. If it can't be measured, weighed or repeated etc, it's not science, it's just an idea. It's the ideas that turn into science that require a leap of faith. This is a different kind of faith than believing in a God, because the latter has never been seen or proven. It exists based on endless faith.
    You rely on the knowledge of others. You read. You think "oooh yeah that makes sense". And you follow. Unless you have extensive experience in the areas you believe you are left to believe that the observations, measurements and conclusions are correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    That's only the interpretation of somebody who believes in a God, and I don't.
    And that's perfectly fine.

    Just to add, I am not questioning the big bang, I am not questioning evolution. You can believe both are true, but are acts of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    I'm not really getting into the field now. The idea of something that explains religion has always been there for me. In my mind I 'know' that anybody with a religious faith is barking up the wrong tree, but I also know that religion isn't there for nothing. There is 'something' out there, but I just don't know what.
    Nobody knows what. It's guesswork. We all believe differently. And that's perfectly normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    But, there ain't no God out there
    In your opinion. In my opinion there is

    All love buddy. In the ring we shall fight to the death. Out of the ring we are good buddies.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredIncorrectly View Post



    You rely on the knowledge of others. You read. You think "oooh yeah that makes sense". And you follow. Unless you have extensive experience in the areas you believe you are left to believe that the observations, measurements and conclusions are correct.


    Science isn't individual theories, it's a process of repeated measurement. It's the process that's more or less indisputable. Your argument here is that the process or the individual could be flawed, therefore science is flawed and just as much a blind leap of faith as all of religion, and we both know that's b0ll0cks.

    As I said, science requires faith until experiments and measurements prove something as 'fact'. Religion requires faith 100% of the time, with no ending.

    Reality is probably somewhere in the middle.
    Last edited by ankietyjoe; 22-11-20 at 22:09.

  8. #28
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    Science isn't individual theories, it's a process of repeated measurement.
    The conclusions of which are the theories (or the disproving of one).

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    Your argument here is that the process or the individual could be flawed, therefore science is flawed and just as much a blind leap of faith as all of religion, and we both know that's ********.
    Actually my argument is science requires faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post
    As I said, science requires faith until experiments and measurements prove something as 'fact'. Religion requires faith 100% of the time, with no ending. Reality is probably somewhere in the middle.
    A theory isn't fact. Ask any scientist "Is a theory fact", and they will tell you no. Are you aware the Big Bang Theory is actually "The Big Bang Hypothesis"? And we both know a hypothesis isn't fact.

    Some scientists believe other theories (there's numerous, you can check yourself). Simulation theory is widely entertained in acedamia. What about black hole theory? Are you going to call those theories wrong and BBT to be true?

    IMy point remains science does require a leap of faith. Is simulation theory testable? ... No, but a lot of scientists are leaning towards the idea.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Joe, ask Google "Is a theory a fact". Your argument is flawed because you assume that a theory is fact.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Random Acts of Kindness, or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by ankietyjoe View Post

    Science is based on predictable and measurable phenomenon.
    Science is also hugely flawed. Studies are biased, and this is dangerous when it comes to health.

    But, there ain't no God out there
    To my knowledge science has been excellent in working out what happened to the universe after it came into being but not before - which leaves the window wide open for a designer/creator or 'God'.
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