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Thread: Quick question

  1. #21
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    Re: Quick question

    I do trust him, he is quite knowledgeable. He had said there was not much more in the sedatives area (sleeping pills are out of the question. We both agree those side effects are much worse then the alternatives) He had suggested changing olanzapine to ziprasadone (but you said it can gain tolerance) and for mirtazapine he had suggested those 3 (amitrip,imap,anafril.) But I did think of suggesting that promazine not sure if it is in canada though.) I think it's called Chlorpromazine and that version looks nasty for side effects, worse then amitrip lol)

    I want to take amitrip cause I have done it before but I need to let go of this endless auto immune bit before I go near it. Afraid to open up a can of Health anxiety or something. I know I was only on 10mg but it felt good.

    You have tried your best at calming me, it has helped but now the rest has to come from me. I have to accept that there may be temporary hair loss, and that auto immune is not a side effect. It may take some time but I have faith. I keep reading everything you have said since the beginning, you are very knowledgeable.

    I wish there was other options other then tcas but I guess thats what mirtazapine is. I am close to accepting the sleep eating but I know I need another med (as you have seen I have nasty ocd and health anxiety) I try to talk myself down but the repetitive record just wont stop no matter what I say or do. It effects me even in my life away from here. I need something for my ocd/anxiety (olanzapine was his attempt to solve it) Not sure if amitrip would help or if it would just help with the sleep.
    Last edited by SEANML; 23-12-20 at 19:01.

  2. #22
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    Re: Quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by SEANML View Post
    He had suggested changing olanzapine to ziprasadone (but you said it can gain tolerance)
    As a generalisation ziprasidone (Geodon) is moderately less sedating than olanzapine and my observation is tolerance to the sedation builds relatively quickly compared to other antipsychotics, but YMMV on both. It may have one significant advantage for you in that it is less likely to trigger weight gain compared to olanzapine and might produce some weight loss.

    But I did think of suggesting that promazine not sure if it is in canada though. I think it's called Chlorpromazine and that version looks nasty for side effects, worse then amitrip lol
    Promazine is the precursor of chlorpromazine and is the better med. I know it's not approved in the U.S. for human use, only as a veterinary sedative/anaesthetic, but thought it was in Canada. I wouldn't take chlorpromazine as a sleep aid.

    I want to take amitrip cause I have done it before but I need to let go of this endless auto immune bit before I go near it. Afraid to open up a can of Health anxiety or something. I know I was only on 10mg but it felt good.
    Maybe the thing to do is to keep your focus on that last sentence, and not the first.

    I need something for my ocd/anxiety (olanzapine was his attempt to solve it) Not sure if amitrip would help or if it would just help with the sleep.
    Unfortunately, the only way to know is by trying it. There are never any guarantees with any of these meds as they all work indirectly through brain changes, not directly in the way say aspirin does for headaches and that means individual biology is much more a factor than it is with most other medications.

    Have a very Merry Christmas and may the New Year usher in better days. Take care
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  3. #23
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    Re: Quick question

    Merry xmas and thank you for all the help. I decided I will try switching olanzapine with ziprasadone (keep mirtazapine for now) and ask the dr about his suggestions for an ocd med in the near future (amitrip seems to be for anxiety and depression) take away the ocd and my anxiety depression will also go away 1 drug at a time, first to see if my hunger cravings go away by eliminating olanzapine. If that fails then I will change mirtazapine to something else for sleep. I will also ask him if promazine exists in Canada.If so then maybe try that out instead of mirtazapine. If not then we fall back on my trying to accept amitrip and overcome my fears that are so ridiculous (ana, rheumatoid and hair loss). If I keep up at this rate I will loose hair from stress lol.

    1 problem with ziprasadone.I have to eat a meal before taking it. Isnt that linked to prostate cancer late night eating? I already do it enough on my meds now lol) Now im back in circles again on what med to take.
    Take zipras and I have to still eat before bed or take amitrip and still eat as well possibly and once again could have nasty side effects that I cant seem to get over hair loss and ana and rhematoid blaw blaw blaw
    . Im driving myself insane. Wish the meds I was taking worked to help my ocd, instead they relive anxiety somewhat but cause sleep eating (wich in return could cause prostate cancer I saw a study about that 20% risk)All the meds could cause sleep eating lol
    I know you can't help me here but I just had to vent big time. I talk to the dr on the 6th

    Also pondering if anafril would be better (due to my ocd issues) I heard that drug helps with it, and you said that Breast fibroadenosis wont happen to men.
    Merry xmas happy new years all. Im so lost. What is your opinion of anafril, I am almost comfortable to use that med other then the hair loss risk.My ocd has been getting much worse as you can see lol.Just a crap load of side effects for anafril it seems (have you taken it?)But no auto immune/ana crap.

    ***Big thank you for your absolute patience and time you have spent trying to reassure me. It means alot (to not be alone in this journey)
    Just simple I am afraid of ana/rheumatoid/hair loss and the sleep eating. I need to try to accept some things but I really need to find a medication that will work on my out of control ocd. Am I wrong or is anafril for ocd?
    *does anafril sedate?
    Sorry once again for my insanity levels here. But at one point your information to me will be accepted I am just not sure when or how.
    Last edited by SEANML; 26-12-20 at 10:44.

  4. #24
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    Re: Quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by SEANML View Post
    I decided I will try switching olanzapine with ziprasadone (keep mirtazapine for now)
    Ziprasidone for olanzapine seems like a good idea.

    first to see if my hunger cravings go away by eliminating olanzapine. If that fails then I will change mirtazapine to something else for sleep
    Mirtazapine is probably driving the carb cravings more than olanzapine, but you never know.

    If that fails then I will change mirtazapine to something else for sleep. I will also ask him if promazine exists in Canada.
    Good idea.

    and ask the dr about his suggestions for an ocd med in the near future (amitrip seems to be for anxiety and depression)
    All ADs may be affective for OCD, however, clomipramine (also the SSRI fluvoxamine (Luvox)) has a superior record. However, that doesn't necessarily guarantee it will work for you. It all comes down to how it meshes with your biology.

    1 problem with ziprasadone.I have to eat a meal before taking it. Isnt that linked to prostate cancer (late night eating? I already do it enough on my meds now lol) Now im back in circles again on what med to take.
    It is usually less sedating than olanzapine so it probably won't sedate you enough that you need to take it just before bed. Take it with your regular evening meal.

    but cause sleep eating (wich in return could cause prostate cancer I saw a study about that 20% risk)
    Never get carried away by a single study and especially not by an observational study. Plus, why are you worrying about a cancer that usually only impacts men of advanced years? I hate to be a party pooper, but the grim reaper always gets us eventually no matter how risk adverse we are. Living your life to forestall death is not only futile it usually ensures you never really live. It isn't the years in your life that count, but the life in your years!

    "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a ride!"

    Hunter S. Thompson

    Breast fibroadenosis wont happen to men
    Except is circumstances where high oestrogen levels are a factor it can't because males lack the breast tissue in which it grows.

    Just simple I am afraid of ana/rheumatoid/hair loss and the sleep eating.
    *Temporary* hair loss is the only side-effect which applies. It comes down to what do you value more, a full head of hair all the time, or quality of life?
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  5. #25
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    Re: Quick question

    Thank you for the information, also Luvox wont help with the sleep bit I don't think but will see if it exists as a daytime med in Canada.
    I am almost certain going to change mirtazapinewith something and then change olanzapine a month later to ziprasadone. Or the other way around zipras and then mirtaz . All I know is my repetitive thinking is nuts now, I carry 3 thoughts at a time now.

    So no cancer from anafril/hair loss is temporary and ziprasadone take it at meal time and then goto bed 2 hours later.
    Also don't even know if I will get hair loss until I try the meds (as it says hair loss is rare) Anafril cancer cannot and will not occur on me because I am a male(If I am understanding) but is there a way that it could happen? I have pecks (use to workout)
    Have you or have you known anyone with success on anafril?


    I like imaprimine side effects (no cancer or lupus like anafril has those side effects "
    lupus erythematosus rash") So now its between imaprimine and amitriptyline (more comfortable with imap because it does not have any auto immune stuff or cancer) amitriptyline has that 1 thing that bothers me ana/rheumatoid. Theres gotta be other meds that produce sedation like mirtazapine but with less nasty side effects?And help with ocd...

    So far the only med he has suggested that I can deal with is imaprimine but you say it wont sedate like amitriptyline. Oh I so wish I never saw side effects I should have just taken what he suggested.

    Also I need to stop concerning myself with studies and start concerning myself on what makes me feel good/better.

    And lastly start living my life and stop worrying about everything (that is easier said then done but I will try)

    Anafril (can it be sedating?)Can amitrip help with ocd and imaprimine? Do they all sedate?

    Do you know anyone that had success with ocd and ADs and what were they. I still wish I could accept amitrip side effects but that drug is not for ocd (i read it was for anxiety and pain mainly) I just hate the "cancer" bit for anafril and the auto immunes for both. Argh

    You have been very helpful in this troubling time, I want you to be very aware of this. I really dont know why why mind went crazy again ( I was living life to the max for 3 years and then this came back)

    *Also I wont worry about observational studies, I guess they are not the most accurate form of data. Sorry for this big message I just had to put it all out there, about to go eat my bed time snack and pass out (cant resist the eating on my meds)


    I feel so bad bugging you sorry
    Last edited by SEANML; 26-12-20 at 18:42.

  6. #26
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    Re: Quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by SEANML View Post
    Thank you for the information, also Luvox wont help with the sleep bit I don't think but will see if it exists as a daytime med in Canada.
    I think you need to separate the antidepressant part from the sleep part. While it would be great to have a single med that solves both, it doesn't always work that way.

    Plus, I'm wasn't recommending fluvoxamine. It often works well, but it activates many liver enzymes which can complicate things if you're on many medications.

    I am almost certain going to change mirtazapinewith something and then change olanzapine a month later to ziprasadone. Or the other way around zipras and then mirtaz . All I know is my repetitive thinking is nuts now, I carry 3 thoughts at a time now.
    Then let you GP make the call. That's what he gets paid for.

    So no cancer from anafril/hair loss is temporary and ziprasadone take it at meal time and then goto bed 2 hours later.
    That sums it up

    Anafril cancer cannot and will not occur on me because I am a male(If I am understanding) but is there a way that it could happen? I have pecks (use to workout)
    Unless you used to and/or are take oestrogen supplements, no.

    Have you or have you known anyone with success on anafril?
    Lots online and one of my oldest friends has been on it since the 1970s.

    I like imaprimine side effects (no cancer or lupus like anafril has those side effects "lupus erythematosus rash")

    ...Oh I so wish I never saw side effects I should have just taken what he suggested.
    You really are determined to make life as difficult for yourself as possible by continuing to look up things without having the knowledge to know what is and isn't important. There are no 100% safe medications. People have choked on super pills. You could even fall under the proverbial bus on the way to/from the pharmacy. About the only certainty in this is doing nothing is riskier than taking any one of these meds is likely to be.

    So far the only med he has suggested that I can deal with is imaprimine but you say it wont sedate like amitriptyline.
    Please reread my first paragraph above.

    Anafril (can it be sedating?)Can amitrip help with ocd and imaprimine? Do they all sedate?
    Both clomipramine and imipramine are likely to be less sedating than amitriptyline. Both amitriptyline and imipramine can be effective for OCD, but the only way to find out if they will be is by trying them.

    My advice, pick one and run with it. If it doesn't work out then switch to one of the others. You really don't have anything to lose and much to gain. If you can't decide either leave it up to your GP, or pick one out of a hat. Taking any one of them has a good chance of working, going around and around in circles never will.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Quick question

    What I dont get is that anafril causes auto immune like amitriptyline. But you say amitriptyline is not an immune causer. Or does anafril just cause lupus like symptoms but not actual lupus?

    Parts of me want to get the courage to take one but it's hard. I dont like risk. I didn't notice hair loss on amitriptyline but I have rheumatoid factor and ana already, couldn't amitriptyline trigger the real deal?

    I just need your help to convince me that anafril or amitriptyline wont cause cancer or auto immune. I'm sorry you must be so frustrated. Maybe studies exist. Imaprimine has the least scary side effects other than hair loss.

    Do you know if there is other sedatives and other OCD meds other then tcas? My dr feels amitriptyline is the closest sedative to mirtazipine. He said mirtazipine is potent. I talk to him the 6th but in afraid to ask other options. He has said I'm difficult. I get it. I just wish something was as equal to mirtazipine

    I'm afraid to also take anafril or imaprimine because then I wont sleep if they dont sedate. I use 3 drugs to put me down, and I still take a hour or 2 to sleep. And I wake alot lol.

    Also can nortriptiline be of any sleep use/ocd/anxiety?

    ***On a plus side note I am closer to accepting one of the drugs (amitriptyline) not yet but I keep telling myself I took it for a few weeks before so it's not a big dealio. Just the ana/rheumatoid is scary and also as I said it does not say its for ocd.And my precious hair lool (3 years of hard work growing this beautiful mop of a dew)
    Last edited by SEANML; 27-12-20 at 17:37.

  8. #28
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    Re: Quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by SEANML View Post
    Parts of me want to get the courage to take one but it's hard. I dont like risk.
    You do riskier things every day as part of the normal day to day activities. Plus, doing nothing is arguably much riskier.

    I didn't notice hair loss on amitriptyline but I have rheumatoid factor and ana already, couldn't amitriptyline trigger the real deal?
    the evidence says no.

    I just need your help to convince me that anafril or amitriptyline wont cause cancer or auto immune. ...Maybe studies exist. Imaprimine has the least scary side effects other than hair loss.
    I can't convince you, you have to do that yourself. I've already posted all the information you need to make a decision.

    My dr feels amitriptyline is the closest sedative to mirtazipine.
    He's right.

    I'm afraid to also take anafril or imaprimine because then I wont sleep if they dont sedate. I use 3 drugs to put me down, and I still take a hour or 2 to sleep. And I wake alot lol.
    You could still take low, sedating doses of mirtazapine if you needed to. Plus, you may sleep better just from having the anxiety/OCD under control.

    Also can nortriptiline be of any sleep use/ocd/anxiety?
    Nortriptyline is the active metabolite of amitriptyline. It is less sedating than its parent.

    On a plus side note I am closer to accepting one of the drugs (amitriptyline) not yet but I keep telling myself I took it for a few weeks before so it's not a big dealio. Just the ana/rheumatoid is scary and also as I said it does not say its for ocd.And my precious hair lool (3 years of hard work growing this beautiful mop of a dew)
    It is your choice. You can spend the rest of your life trapped in this circle and possibly die prematurely from some stress triggered disease, or you can take a leap of faith.

    If you can't bring yourself to take meds then is therapy a possibility? It can be as effective as ADs.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Quick question

    Therapy is not affordable. But my dr said if I could get cognitive one day its recommended. As meds is not a long term solution.

    So amitriptyline causing ana, rheumatoid doesn't mean it gives autoimmune? So close now

  10. #30
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    Re: Quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by SEANML View Post
    Therapy is not affordable.
    The Canadian healthcare system doesn't pay for at least some therapy?

    As meds is not a long term solution.
    What is his definition of 'long term'? ADs have kept me mostly anxiety free and reasonably sane (some of those who know me well may disagree ) since early 1987, nearly 34 years. They don't work that well for everyone, but I'm by no means a rare exception.

    So amitriptyline causing ana, rheumatoid doesn't mean it gives autoimmune? So close now
    I have explained why these fears are unfounded and provided evidence for this. You're just keep going around in circles.
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