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Thread: The Dark Side Of Spotify

  1. #1
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    The Dark Side Of Spotify

    Great video here ...

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  2. #2
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    I really miss the days when physical audio media was king, with my favourite period for record stores being the mid-80s through the early 90s, when we had three main formats for albums, vinyl LPs, cassettes and CDs, and for singles the main formats were 7-inch vinyl, 12-inch vinyl, then starting around 1988 or so we had the first CD singles, then by the early 90s we also had those 'cassingle' things (cassette singles).

    With vinyl pretty much gone from nearly all mainstream stores by the mid-90s it just never felt quite the same again, even though I have always had CDs, but there has always been something about vinyl that for me has never followed in other, newer formats, not even analogue tape-
    based formats.

    Even just watching the labels in the centre of the records rotating whilst on the player I find extremely hypnotic, let alone the actual music. I've had many favourite paper label designs over the years too, plus of course the sleeves are an integral part of the package

  3. #3
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    Yes Lencoboy! I fully agree with you. When music stopped being printed on physical medium I completely stopped buying music. You buy music today and you don't actually own a copy of that song. Piracy has gone through the roof too.

    I love watching the vinyl turn around the deck, and the warm crackle at the start of every song.
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredIncorrectly View Post
    Yes Lencoboy! I fully agree with you. When music stopped being printed on physical medium I completely stopped buying music. You buy music today and you don't actually own a copy of that song. Piracy has gone through the roof too.

    I love watching the vinyl turn around the deck, and the warm crackle at the start of every song.
    What really gets on my wick is those who still keep saying that vinyl is old hat now and that the vinyl revival is just a 'passing fad'. What? A medium whose sales have been increasing year-on-year in most countries of the world since about 2007?

    Passing fad my backside!!

    Isn't it most ironic that CDs (and even players themselves) have not only become as cheap as chips today, but many struggle to even give them away, let alone sell them.

  5. #5
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    Quote Originally Posted by Lencoboy View Post
    What really gets on my wick is those who still keep saying that vinyl is old hat now and that the vinyl revival is just a 'passing fad'. What? A medium whose sales have been increasing year-on-year in most countries of the world since about 2007?

    Passing fad my backside!!

    Isn't it most ironic that CDs (and even players themselves) have not only become as cheap as chips today, but many struggle to even give them away, let alone sell them.
    I laugh at those people who claim it's a fad. It's not. It's here to stay and you only have to Google to see that vinyl is still being printed and sold today.

    I lived through the vinyl days in my youth. I was a DJ and back then there was no such thing as CD decks. It was an artform, and a skill, to be able to mix two vinyl. You had many factors to deal with one of them being natural tempo sway. Technics avoided this problem with quartz, but I had belt drive decks back then. On belt drives you had to constantly manage both tracks to keep them in sync.

    Then CDJ's became the thing in all clubs and the bedroom music producers were able to print their remixes and tracks to CD for DJ's to play. But there is no art in mixing CD. CD decks have BPM counters, auto timing features etc. There's no skill in that. It spawned a whole birth of new DJ's, all were hated by us vinyl warriors because they'd basically pee'ed all over the music scene with their MP3's.

    The people who say it's a fad are those that don't know the industry still exists. I'm very passionate about vinyl too
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  6. #6
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    I was in the music manufacturing industry for over 20 years. Sales and Marketing director for 9 of those years. I got into the business just as vinyl was phasing out and watched the demise of the cassette as well. The resurgence of vinyl started around 10 years ago as well as specialty high end audio gear. It's hovering around 25% of physical product sales. Overall though, digital holds the vast majority of the market at around 80+% of sales (that's not even accounting for free downloads and the like). That said, there still is a large niche for physical product. I looked at like "Occupy Wall Street" except is was "Occupy Indie Music". Just like wall Street, there are the 1%ers of the music industry that are selling 10's of thousands to millions+ product, being played on the radio etc. The rest, including myself are part of the 99% and having physical product and merch is an additional revenue stream. After all, if people like you, they like to take a little piece of you home with them. Besides, a download card is just a piece of paper and you can't sign a download right?

    I have (had since the pandemic) a cush gig in the Shenandoah National Park for the last ten years. I performed an average of 6-12 times a month including some local wineries and breweries. I sold my CD at the gigs and on average I'd sell around 150 copies a season (March-November) at $10 a pop. My cost per unit was around $1.50 so that's a nice little profit. Take that, the nightly pay and tips and I had a nice little side business.

    It's interesting, I wondered how, when the digital platforms started, how they would monopolize the market. After all, the record companies had the artists in their back pocket since the beginning. It really didn't take that long. On average in the digital streaming market is ridiculous! Let's put it this way, you have to get around 250-300 streams to make a dollar! Spotify, Apple and the others have taken over where the record companies have left off.

    I consider them free advertising essentially. In the big picture, it's the fact that people are listening and enjoying that matters.

    Positive thoughts
    Last edited by Fishmanpa; 01-03-21 at 18:01.
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  7. #7
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishmanpa View Post
    Let's put it this way, you have to get around 250-300 streams to make a dollar!
    And here's the thing.

    I bought an album on CD in 1987 (for arguments sake, I actually bought hundreds).

    Let's say I paid £8.

    Of that £8, the band probably got paid around £1.50, maximum?

    I have owned that CD for 35 years, and every time I play it, they get nothing. Since then I have also streamed the same album well over 500 times on Spotify (the album I'm thinking of is Yello - Stella). So they have actually earned more from me from streaming the album than me buying it 30 years ago.

    This is the thing that really bothers me about the whole streaming argument. The idea that you get paid a dollar for ONE sale, but only $0.0067 (or whatever it is this week) for ONE play is not apples for apples. Not even remotely.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    There's two sides to the coin imo.

    For some artists streaming works well. The case in point that you made there Joe is valid. But for most artists it doesn't work that way. The amount you get for a million plays on Spotify is continuing to get smaller as the platform becomes more saturated. They have the cheek to make you pay for your own plaque when you hit 1,000,000 plays which I think is around £150.

    The cost of marketing to get to a million plays makes the whole endeavor pointless because you'll pay more in marketing than you earn from the million.
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  9. #9
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredIncorrectly View Post
    The cost of marketing to get to a million plays makes the whole endeavor pointless because you'll pay more in marketing than you earn from the million.
    That's the bottom line. If people are listening and downloading and you make a few pennies, so be it. You cannot buy that kind of advertising. If you happen to get a break, then you're way ahead of the game. I've had fans email me during the last year with the pandemic just to say they listen to my CD and I've had emails from across the world with positive notes about my music. To me, that's priceless. After all, isn't that why we create?

    Positive thoughts

    Positive thoughts
    __________________
    "Eat. Drink. Enjoy the work you do. Be thankful for the blessings God gives you in this life. Live, love and seek out the things that bring your heart joy. The rest is meaningless... Like chasing the wind." King Solomon

    The best help is the help you give yourself! http://cbt4panic.org/

  10. #10
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    Re: The Dark Side Of Spotify

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishmanpa View Post
    That's the bottom line. If people are listening and downloading and you make a few pennies, so be it. You cannot buy that kind of advertising. If you happen to get a break, then you're way ahead of the game. I've had fans email me during the last year with the pandemic just to say they listen to my CD and I've had emails from across the world with positive notes about my music. To me, that's priceless. After all, isn't that why we create?

    Positive thoughts

    Positive thoughts
    Yes, I think that is the most important thing. I create for a hobby and if people say they enjoyed my music that's worth more than money to me. I couldn't imagine working in the industry to make a living. Its different for you as you tour, but for many producers it's hard to make headway in the game as you're not an artist that appeals to the public. It becomes more like B2B marketing to get sales from vocalists.
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