19th July Reopening

[phil06]

Any comment on how many were hospitalized after this festival?

Sure vaccines may cut risk personal risk that’s all.

The passports are a con as vaccinated people could spread covid. If by banning unvaccinated people from gigs they think that will work the are in for a disappointment as these people will go elsewhere and will spend money elsewhere I believe Scotland just reported 40% down on footfall according to BBC news.

[Fishmanpa]

Sure vaccines may cut risk personal risk that’s all.

The passports are a con as vaccinated people could spread covid. If by banning unvaccinated people from gigs they think that will work the are in for a disappointment as these people will go elsewhere and will spend money elsewhere I believe Scotland just reported 40% down on footfall according to BBC news.

there’s only one thing that’s going to stop you having this concern but you’re choosing not to do it. Also, wasn’t your wife advised not to have a second vaccine due to an adverse reaction? That would surely then make her exempt to these rules.

Honestly phil, these rules are out of our hands. There’s nothing we can do other than get vaccinated and get a covid pass. If you choose not to then there’s really nothing i or anyone else can say to remove this concern.

do what you want. Take your own chances. No one here can predict the future or advise you.

FMP

[elizabethalice]

Phil, the way I see it, the vaccine passports are there to protect unvaxxed people. Unvaxxed people can say "I don't care, I won't get sick", but if they are then going into hospital and taking up space, it becomes the NHS's problem.

If I caught covid now, the chances of me having it seriously are minuscule, because I'm double vaxxed. This means I wouldn't cause the health system any problems.

While infections are possible in vaxxed people, serious infections needing NHS treatment are very rare. This is the reasoning behind vax passports.

Personally, I would feel much happier if I was living in Scotland or Wales right now. Boris is doing what he does best - dilly dallying and I do worry it will have impacts.

I also really recommend not reading the daily mail. Their writing is riddled with inaccuracies and hyperbole that doesn't even make sense half the time. It will only fuel your anxiety!

[Gary A]

Sure vaccines may cut risk personal risk that’s all.

The passports are a con as vaccinated people could spread covid. If by banning unvaccinated people from gigs they think that will work the are in for a disappointment as these people will go elsewhere and will spend money elsewhere I believe Scotland just reported 40% down on footfall according to BBC news.

So you don’t think that cutting personal risk is important? Get it into your head, the vaccine passports are for two things. One, to encourage younger people to be vaccinated, and two, to prevent large volumes of people being hospitalised.

The vaccines actually do prevent infection, they’re just not quite as good at preventing infection as they are at preventing severe illness. Yes, the idea has got its flaws, but what idea hasn’t had its flaws during this bloody pandemic?

Again Phil, if 1000 unvaccinated people gather in a crowded environment, you’re talking a potential of hundreds of them ending up in hospital. 1000 vaccinated people in a crowded environment reduces that risk drastically. Yes, people can and will still become infected even when vaccinated, but there’s a difference between a few dozen people feeling a bit rough for a few days as opposed to them ending up in hospital using a machine to breathe. Can’t you see that?

[spectrum123]

Sure vaccines may cut risk personal risk that’s all.

The passports are a con as vaccinated people could spread covid. If by banning unvaccinated people from gigs they think that will work the are in for a disappointment as these people will go elsewhere and will spend money elsewhere I believe Scotland just reported 40% down on footfall according to BBC news.

That's sort of the whole point. We have lockdowns to prevent hospitals being swamped with cases.

If you have a highly transmittable disease, the greater the number of people mixing, the more it will transmit. We now have a vaccine (even if you ignore it's known to reduce transmission), its major benefit is it greatly reduces hospitalisation by 80-95%, if you're going to allow large groups to mix, with the possibility some could be carrying it, you only want those with the reduced hospitalisation rate coming into contact with the carriers. Introduce a large portion of un-vaxed, and we are back to square one, hospitals overstretched and back in lockdown.

If we get locked down again, a large portion of the blame will be put at your feet, you will be partly the cause. Your mates will be overjoyed when they're sat at home and can't go out, and find one of their group made a bad situation worse. You're going to be a welcome as a fart in spacesuit when they can go out again.

[Pamplemousse]

Interview with Professor Peter Openshaw of Imperial College, where the LSHTM modelling picked up by the Mail and Telegraph is discussed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0010wxz

54 minutes in.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes. You’re doing the old anti-vaxxer tactic of using infection as a way of saying vaccination is pointless. How many of them ended up seriously ill? That should be your question, but of course it won’t be as that wouldn’t justify your decision to not be vaccinated.

Funny how these threads of yours always go from “I’m worried about…” into you just posting out of context crap in order to, unsuccessfully, justify your decision.

You’ve made your decision. Live with the consequences. Nobody is going to change their mind on this.

Just to add...

Looking at the latest for the hospital in my city we have just under 100 people in. If you looked at the charts showing infections you would see they are about the same as the worst we experienced in January. But hospitalisations were far higher back then.

That alone shows vaccination has worked for my city.

[elizabethalice]

As others have said, the whole point is to keep un vaxxed people safe. Because anyone who hasn't had the vax is at risk of hospitalisation - much more so than those who have had it.

So many people think they'll be ok with no vax. Many people are, but even in mine and my partner's experience (age 28 and 30, no other health conditions, better than average fitness levels) we used the NHS when we had covid. He wasn't far off going into hospital and rang 111 to speak to a doctor. I had an ECG and blood tests after because I wasn't feeling right. These things all cost NHS money.

There were no vaccines around for our age group then so we couldn't have avoided it, but if everyone even needs that level of NHS support it still adds pressure. And people can say they're young and healthy they will be fine, but our own experience shows that people do still use the NHS resources even if they are young and healthy. The only way to be sure to not use them is to get vaxxed.

So it is in the NHS interests to keep unvaxxed people away from the virus, at least for this winter!

[Pamplemousse]

A few thoughts.

1. Actions have consequences. Considering the political stance of the sources Phil frequently quotes, I thought they were big on personal responsibility?

2. It's suggested that European countries are getting fed up of the plague island at its western edge and are likely to put it on their travel "red lists" very soon.

3. There are rumours, and I stress just rumours, that local authorities are being sounded out by Westminster about localised lockdowns in the near future if things continue on the current course.

[phil06]

A few thoughts.

1. Actions have consequences. Considering the political stance of the sources Phil frequently quotes, I thought they were big on personal responsibility?

2. It's suggested that European countries are getting fed up of the plague island at its western edge and are likely to put it on their travel "red lists" very soon.

3. There are rumours, and I stress just rumours, that local authorities are being sounded out by Westminster about localised lockdowns in the near future if things continue on the current course.

The current course? What a over ten thousand drop in daily cases? Scientists have said now cases will drop to 5,000 a day. May not please some people on here but plan B May never be required