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Thread: Suggestions and advice needed please.

  1. #11
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by sparky10 View Post
    It’s perfectly reasonable to ask to speak with your doctor, you are just being fobbed off and deserve to be seen by your gp.
    Any health professionals worth their salt would allow you to titrate up on medication with your known sensitivity.
    it’s counterproductive of them to insist that you start at the therapeutic dose when you have more chance of staying on
    the medication and benefiting doing it your way.
    you need to advocate for yourself and stick to your guns!
    There is a good chance it would help you as you share genetics and I’ve heard many accounts where family members have been helped
    with the same medication. Not always but hopefully this is the case.
    Like someone else said you have to be severely ill to be sectioned and hospitalised these days. It’s a very last resort and you don’t need to be worried about that! When they said the mental health team it will most likely be access n crisis or secondary care who help people in the community and in no way look to place someone in hospital.
    hope you get the help you deserve!
    I really appreciate your time and response, I always feel fobbed off and once the phone is down feel very let down and annoyed with myself for not fighting for my rights, my surgery is literally one doctor and the message the surgery puts out is you have to be really sick to speak to him.

    I agree and that's my point exactly, if I had 10mg of citalopram it may put me off if the side effects was to much, I just want to be in a better place for Christmas which is a Good few months away, the sectioning fear has lifted a bit with everyone replying saying the same thing. I just felt when they mentioned the mental health team they was using it as a bad thing instead of allowing me to speak to the doctor, it's a terrible surgery but they all are in my area.

    Thankyou.

  2. #12
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by panic_down_under View Post
    Can you change GPs? A GP you can't reach is less useful than a pet rock, imo!



    How is she going to know how much you actually take?



    Diazepam is not addictive, but dependence may develop after a while so it should be tapered off, not stopped abruptly. This is also true of citalopram.

    BTW - 'fun' fact. Every human that has ever lived has been dependent on diazepam and its metabolites. It is one of the naturally occurring BZDs found in all foods [1]. While the quantities we get from food are small, they are not insignificant. Natural BZD plasma levels can reach that of pharmaceuticals in patients with some liver diseases [2] and may become so high that medical intervention is necessary [3]. My guess is benzodiazepines were originally a plant poison to which life, including Homo sapiens, have become so adapted to that we can no longer function without them.



    Diazepam has a long shelf-life, longer than the date printed on the box. U.S. Army tests found diazepam was still effective 8 years after manufacture (note: Medscape link which may require free registration to view, lets me know if you are unable to and I'll PM you a copy).



    As per my previous post, if they sectioned everyone that asked for a BZD, or didn't take their pills as ordered then most of the country would be in locked psych wards, including a lot of psychiatrists and GPs. The medical profession has much higher rates of anxiety and depression than the general public in large part because of its appalling work practices.



    There is a genetic component to these disorders and while there is never a guarantee the fact close relatives have responded well to citalopram is likely to improve the odds of it working for you too.

    References:

    [1]
    Muceniece R, Saleniece K, Krigere L, et al. (2008)
    Potato (Solanum tuberosum) juice exerts an anticonvulsant effect in mice through binding to GABA receptors.
    Planta Med. 2008 Apr;74(5):491-6. (Abstract)

    Kavvadias D, Abou-Mandour AA, Czygan FC, et al (2000)
    Identification of benzodiazepines in Artemisia dracunculus and Solanum tuberosum rationalizing their endogenous formation in plant tissue.
    Biochem Biophys Res Commun Mar 5;269(1):290-5 (Abstract)

    Sand P, Kavvadias D, Feineis D, et al. (2000)
    Naturally occurring benzodiazepines: current status of research and clinical implications.
    Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci vol 250(4): p 194-202 (Abstract)

    Kotz U, (1991)
    Occurrence of "natural" benzodiazepines.
    Life Sci;48(3):209-15 (Abstract)

    Unseld E, Krishna Dr Fischer C, et al (1989)
    Detection of desmethyldiazepam and diazepam in brain of different species and plants.
    Biochem Pharmacol Aug 1;38(15):2473-8 (Abstract)

    Wildman J, Ranalder U. (1988)
    Presence of lorazepam in the blood plasma of drug free rats.
    Life Sci. 43(15):1257-60. (Abstract)

    Wildmann J. (1988)
    Increase of natural benzodiazepines in wheat and potato during germination.
    Biochem Biophys Res Commun. Dec 30;157(3):1436-43. (Abstract)

    Wildmann J, Vetter W, Ranalder UB, et al (1988)
    Occurrence of pharmacologically active benzodiazepines in trace amounts in wheat and potato.
    Biochem Pharmacol. Oct 1;37(19):3549-59. (Abstract)

    Sangameswaran L, Fales HM, Friedrich P, De Blas AL. (1986)
    Purification of a benzodiazepine from bovine brain and detection of benzodiazepine-like immunoreactivity in human brain
    Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1986 Dec;83(23):9236-40. (Abstract | Full text - PDF)

    [2]
    Baraldi M, Avallone R, Corsi L, et al (2000) Endogenous benzodiazepines. Therapie Jan-Feb;55(1):143-6 (Abstract)

    [3]
    Zeneroli ML, Venturini I, Stefanelli S, et al, (1997) Antibacterial activity of rifaximin reduces the levels of benzodiazepine-like compounds in patients with liver cirrhosis. Pharmacol Res , Jun;35(6):557-60 (Abstract)
    [Note: no benzodiazepine synthesizing gut flora has been isolated and they almost certainly don't exist in humans]
    I could change surgeries, but honestly they are all as bad as each other here, there is like one main doctor the rest are nurses, and healthcare assistants. I am going to try and push and stand my ground for a phone call with the doctor.

    She won't know, its just the seven days worth of tablets its a hassle for me, I want the tablets and to just push through without phone calls from them asking me how I am getting on and getting tablets from the chemist after seven days, basically I want to hide in my room take the meds build up and hopefully come out the other end even half better.

    I was just given a White box with the diazepam in, no dates so for me even with that knowledge it would be difficult for me to take as its one of my anxieties dates on foods, meds. I would still appreciate a copy of the article to read if you could pm it me I would be thankful.

    I am starting to see its an irrational fear as everyone that has replied has said the same thing in regards to being sectioned, it is not like I am refusing therapy and not trying going out even though its very limited, I agree the strain on our healthcare staff in immense especially with covid.

    Thank you for your time, its greatly appreciate. I am a fan of your posts and find your knowledge amazing, a reply to a post stands out you mentioned being in meds you have travelled the world, without you can barely reach your post box. It gives me hope because I feel so stuck right now and my future is scary due to this anxiety.

    Regards

  3. #13
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by DNR View Post
    I was just given a White box with the diazepam in, no dates so for me even with that knowledge it would be difficult for me to take as its one of my anxieties dates on foods, meds. I would still appreciate a copy of the article to read if you could pm it me I would be thankful.
    I've found a direct link, no reg required: Recycling Expensive Medication: Why Not? The Valium reference is under the 'Expiration Dates' heading.

    you mentioned being in meds you have travelled the world, without you can barely reach your post box. It gives me hope because I feel so stuck right now and my future is scary due to this anxiety.
    Yes, that's how it was. There are no guarantees, but the odds of a successful outcome are good, especially given your mother's success with citalopram. However, these disorders are often a long time in the making and don't surrender easily. The pills can do a lot of the heavy lifting, but it needs to be followed by continually extending oneself.
    __________________
    The opinions expressed above are based on my observations and, where applicable, interpretation of cited data and are general in nature. Consult your physician before acting on anything stated.

  4. #14
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by panic_down_under View Post
    I've found a direct link, no reg required: Recycling Expensive Medication: Why Not? The Valium reference is under the 'Expiration Dates' heading.



    Yes, that's how it was. There are no guarantees, but the odds of a successful outcome are good, especially given your mother's success with citalopram. However, these disorders are often a long time in the making and don't surrender easily. The pills can do a lot of the heavy lifting, but it needs to be followed by continually extending oneself.
    Thank you so much for your time.

    I am going into it fully aware that it is me that has to fight and change, and I feel its what I do now its just the anxiety is overwhelming and at a level which is too high for the techniques to work well enough, they work its just very slow progress and life is passing me by and I cant be there for loved ones as I am stuck. How is your anxiety nowadays? When you was abroad was you ever scared of having a severe relapse? As I am very worried about getting well and then having a relapse far away or abroad.

  5. #15
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by DNR View Post
    How is your anxiety nowadays?
    It rarely raises its head these days. Hasn't really in many years. It does come back after a while if I reduce the high AD dose I'm on, or stop taking it, though I stopped trying that years ago as it wasn't worth the hassle of going back onto it. Life is too short, especially at my age.

    When you was abroad was you ever scared of having a severe relapse? As I am very worried about getting well and then having a relapse far away or abroad.
    It probably occasionally crossed my mind. I did have the advantage of most of my then travels being for work and I had the resources of an arm of government adept at extracting people at my disposal had I come a cropper. Once anxiety is well controlled such fears diminish over time as you build confidence so you probably won't be flying around the world by Christmas. It'll be taking baby steps initially, almost literally, and building on your successes. As Mao said, a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. An AD's main contribution is enabling you to take that first step...then another...and another, rinse and repeat.

  6. #16
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by panic_down_under View Post
    It rarely raises its head these days. Hasn't really in many years. It does come back after a while if I reduce the high AD dose I'm on, or stop taking it, though I stopped trying that years ago as it wasn't worth the hassle of going back onto it. Life is too short, especially at my age.



    It probably occasionally crossed my mind. I did have the advantage of most of my then travels being for work and I had the resources of an arm of government adept at extracting people at my disposal had I come a cropper. Once anxiety is well controlled such fears diminish over time as you build confidence so you probably won't be flying around the world by Christmas. It'll be taking baby steps initially, almost literally, and building on your successes. As Mao said, a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. An AD's main contribution is enabling you to take that first step...then another...and another, rinse and repeat.
    That is good news, it's a horrid condition to have. I would be the same if I manged to get on medication, I would be happy for just ten years with low anxiety levels, I am only thirty despite feeling old, it is still rather Young despite time flying past.

    I have so much respect for you and have read your replied for years, the way you put things is how the doctors should be. I guess I can understand that as when I have managed to go places that seemed impossible it was OK and then I would relapse to being housebound again. I would hope by Christmas to be hopefully able to enjoy some things outside and not have to rush back home as the physical anxiety symptoms overwhelm me.

    Wish you all the best.

  7. #17
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by DNR View Post
    I am only thirty despite feeling old,
    Thirty? You're barely out of short pants. Wait until you're in your 70s and dealing with the wear and tear of an 'interesting' life! Actually, it's not that bad. My father died a month short of his 101st birthday and one of our last conversations were about him feeling no older than he did at 40. He'd had HA for much of his life after WW2.

    I guess I can understand that as when I have managed to go places that seemed impossible it was OK and then I would relapse to being housebound again.
    Anxiety often makes the anticipation much worse than the reality. Most of us can cope quite well once we're away from the familiar, but get ourselves so worked up in the planning that we never attempt the journey. The trick is to keep building on the successes instead of resting on our laurels and backsliding into the prison created by our minds.

    I would hope by Christmas to be hopefully able to enjoy some things outside and not have to rush back home as the physical anxiety symptoms overwhelm me.
    There's no reason why you couldn't achieve that. Just take baby steps initially and keep pushing the limits day by day, though only to the point of mild discomfort, not full blown anxiety.

    Wish you all the best.
    And me you.
    __________________
    The opinions expressed above are based on my observations and, where applicable, interpretation of cited data and are general in nature. Consult your physician before acting on anything stated.

  8. #18
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by panic_down_under View Post
    Thirty? You're barely out of short pants. Wait until you're in your 70s and dealing with the wear and tear of an 'interesting' life! Actually, it's not that bad. My father died a month short of his 101st birthday and one of our last conversations were about him feeling no older than he did at 40. He'd had HA for much of his life after WW2.



    Anxiety often makes the anticipation much worse than the reality. Most of us can cope quite well once we're away from the familiar, but get ourselves so worked up in the planning that we never attempt the journey. The trick is to keep building on the successes instead of resting on our laurels and backsliding into the prison created by our minds.



    There's no reason why you couldn't achieve that. Just take baby steps initially and keep pushing the limits day by day, though only to the point of mild discomfort, not full blown anxiety.



    And me you.
    I will take your advice on board, its strange for me that since my breakdown roughly three years ago it only feels like a short time since I was the me before this, its like my mind has blocked the three years out. I do push myself to far sometimes, but that is only because I feel like I am not making enough progress.

    Thankyou.

  9. #19
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    Re: Suggestions and advice needed please.

    Quote Originally Posted by DNR View Post
    do push myself to far sometimes,
    Pushing is good as long as it doesn't raise anxiety levels by more than a modest amount as that's counterproductive.

    but that is only because I feel like I am not making enough progress.
    These disorders are often many years in the making and they don't surrender easily so recovery takes time, many months with continual improvement over years and setbacks may sometimes occur. Life with anxiety and/or depression can occasionally resemble the snakes and ladders boardgame. There are no quick fixes, unfortunately.
    __________________
    The opinions expressed above are based on my observations and, where applicable, interpretation of cited data and are general in nature. Consult your physician before acting on anything stated.

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