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Thread: The Works of JRR Tolkien

  1. #1
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    The Works of JRR Tolkien

    Any fans of Tolkien feel free to post here. No doubt this will open the floodgates to all the closet Tolkien fans on NMP (Darksky)
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    Me? How very dare you

    i was reading today a discussion on why the eagles of Manwe didn’t just drop the ring into the chasm and therefore stop Frodo and co having to do it themselves.

    I have an opinion on this ( you’d never guess would you )

    Its an argument often bought up. Taking the fact that there would be no story aside….I think that Gwahir and the rest would have been far too big to do it. Think back to when Maedthros was hung by his wrist and was rescued by his cousin Fingon who cut his hand off. This eagle of Manwe was big enough to carry a six foot plus Eldar and when Maedthros was released from his torment, took both of them on its back.

    They would have to have been HUGE. A group of eagles ( I hesitate to use the word flock…it doesn’t seem appropriate) that size would never have been able to get to Mount Doom unannounced, which would have triggered a counter attack from Sauron.

    Stealth was the order of the day.
    Also accuracy….the ring had to be dropped into the chasm from where it came. Surely it would have taken someone closer than an eagle could get?

    Just my opinion on why the eagles of Manwe couldn’t have done the job of Frodo and Sam….and ultimately Sméagol.
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    Hmm. Couldn't the eagles have carried the whole Fellowship? i.e Gandalf on Gwaihir etc. After all there were nine members to match 'The Nine' Nazgul. I'm sure there were enough eagles. They could have dropped them off at the doorway of Sammath Naur. Quickly run inside, chuck the ring into the lava. Job done No need for all that trudging through ashes and noxious marshland.
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    PS - its never stated whether these were Golden or White Tailed Sea Eagles.
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    It wouldn’t have been very stealthy though would it? And the fellowship would be redundant…why take them at all? I can’t see what use Merry, Pippin, Gimli or even Aragorn and Boromir would be clinging to the back of an eagle….facing the Ring Wraiths. Legolas maybe could have been useful seeing as he probably was 1000s of years old and seen similar foes. The eye of Sauron had to be turned to the battle so that Sam and Frodo could sneak in. My money’s still on stealth and thus it was proved.

    Theres also an argument that the eagles were not at the beck and call of the Istari. They were after all Manwe’s eagles, proud and powerful beings in themselves. Just because Mithrandir may have asked them to take the ring, who is to say they would agree to do so

    I can’t remember where, but I heard a recording of someone asking JRRT the same question. He just got frustrated and told them to shut up.
    Not a lot of help and leaves the likes of us nerdlingers arguing the toss
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    Well it would have made the book shorter for a start. And the movie franchise would be cut to one 30 minute DVD!!

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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    Regarding the eagles….

    Get your glasses on Fishman, you know how rubbish I am with this sizing. But here is a painting done by JRRT himself of one of them.3D9B0282-484E-4322-9435-B0B7EC9DF4DD.jpg

    I think it’s a golden eagle.
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    That does look like a Golden Eagle Darksky. The White-Tailed Sea Eagle has a more angular head.
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    On the subject of Gollum/Smeagol, it's been said more than once that his character was based on an addict. Would this be accurate or too simplistic an answer?

    You can certainly see the argument for this. The craving for the Ring. The feeling of only being complete when he had the Ring. But also the 'conscience' that was Smeagol, that so irritated the addict that was Gollum. He's the most interesting character in LOTR by a mile. I've often wondered whether Tolkien made all the other players so 100% evil or 100% good deliberately. So as to make Gollum/Smeagol stand out by his non-complicity? Though perhaps Boromir would fit into the morally ambiguous group too.
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  10. #10
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    Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

    Gollum certainly was ‘addicted’. The power of the ring could be compared to the power of heroin. Totally consuming and life destroying. Was he a weak character? He certainly could not resist the lure of the ring but then again neither could Frodo. Would Frodo have actually cast the ring into the chasm at the final moment? No.
    Of course the ring did not hold sway over all. Galadriel being a member of the ancient Eldar was able to resist but hobbits were not equipped to deal with such power.Sméagol really didn’t stand a chance.
    Its interesting to note how Sméagol was not entirely taken over by evil. Deep down Sméagol was still the hobbit that Gollum tried, without total success to quell. Those conversations that he had with the two parts of himself were fascinating. He does invoke a certain sympathy.
    No one can call Gollum totally evil because he wasn’t. He gets a bad rap from the other characters but it’s not entirely fair.

    In many ways Sméagol was like a child led by the hand by Gollum. He also has a comic element in the film. But ultimately he was destined to suffer the same fate as Maedhros with his Silmaril. He is another complex character, similar to Sméagol. Driven to make bad choices because of the lure of the Simaril. Driven to ultimate death.

    I think Boromir was basically a good guy but it just goes to show the devastating lure of the ring. Hoping to do good with it was a fools folly.
    Denethor was another driven to do evil acts by madness. A good guy but one that we all hated for his attempted burning of his son Faramir.

    Moral corruption is rife in Tolkiens works. I wish he had taken some of the loosening of moral strings with the Eldar, as he did in the Silmarillion into the LOTR. They were too good, too pure when they really weren’t. These white, floaty, beautiful beings would have had no compunction in taking your throat out in the FA. I miss that.
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