GB News-The hard-Right 'has-beens' club?

[MyNameIsTerry]

The immigration problem will feed right into their hands. Neither main party has a credible plan to sort it.

But for me I would have thought the peak was earlier. The Nick Griffin days?

Things cycle. We've just had a far left period with Corbyn which is still bubbling under the surface but at least Starmer put some effort in the reduce their influence. Sadly the war in Palestine has pulled them back out from under their stones but hopefully they won't last long (and definitely hopefully things calm down in Palestine, although it will never change until the people oust Hamas).

To be honest I think we ok. Now if I was in Italy or Austria i would be worried. We seem to be lucky in that, whilst many may share concerns that overlap further left or right, we dont have the stomach to be part of the extremes.

[Lencoboy]

The immigration problem will feed right into their hands. Neither main party has a credible plan to sort it.

But for me I would have thought the peak was earlier. The Nick Griffin days?

Things cycle. We've just had a far left period with Corbyn which is still bubbling under the surface but at least Starmer put some effort in the reduce their influence. Sadly the war in Palestine has pulled them back out from under their stones but hopefully they won't last long (and definitely hopefully things calm down in Palestine, although it will never change until the people oust Hamas).

To be honest I think we ok. Now if I was in Italy or Austria i would be worried. We seem to be lucky in that, whilst many may share concerns that overlap further left or right, we dont have the stomach to be part of the extremes.

That's a reassuring view from you Terry.

You're probably right about the Nick Griffin era, which I think was around the 90s-2000s. We barely seem to hear of him and the BNP these days, thank God!

Furthermore, UKIP also seem to be very much a pale shadow of their former selves of late and while Reform UK appear to be having a bit of an uptick in the opinion polls ATM, they're still waaaaay below the 2 main parties with Labour still in the lead, of course.
In fact, even the Lib Dems are currently rating somewhat higher than RUK.

Mind you, a sizeable proportion of the British public can be rather fickle and indeed whimsical on occasions when it comes to politics in general, especially when it comes to certain issues that barely affect them directly on a daily basis and don't normally give as much as a second thought to when not reminded, e.g, the delusion of being under threat from those 'pesky foreigners', especially if they seldom ever encounter them.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Well UKIP killed off the BNP and the referendum killed off UKIP. All those Tory & Labour members went back to their homes since they only used UKIP as a vehicle for a referendum. That can again be demonstrated by the EU elections where it was divided down referendum lines to gift UKIP and the Libdems. Once the two top parties stopped trying to force the referendum result out everyone went back to their homes (maybe less so on the Libdem side where they might have stayed).

I think seeing immigration in such a way is incorrect. It get played as white racist Brits but people dont think about how EU migration was largely white and many Asian, African, etc voters might like their countries to stop being made 2nd class. Funnily enough those further to the left even saw EU white prioritsation as racism hence why you have a bizarrely broad church of communist party members joining with UKIP types. Even white former EU immigrants had their doubts as they remember the trouble their own countries had with the negative aspects of immigration from their neighbour's. And what about the Asian community around here complaining about a rise in racism due to an influx of eastern European workers? Or maybe employers keeping wages down to increase their profits?

That's why the referendum split everyone. You absolutely have Labour areas seeing this and how the party started shifting away from them under Blair.

You can be as far to the left as you want and surely question prioritising white Christian countries over others? Or be concerned about people smugglers raking it in?

I think it's going to be Labour next but I dont think they supply the same confidence as the incoming Blair years. The Tories have been in so long that they have descended into corruption and sleaze. Sounds reminiscent of when Blair got in. But I dont think Starmer has the ability of Blair, like him or loathe him, and his party is still in disarray despite his attempts to clean out less desirable types who flourished under Corbyn. He will have a lot more infighting to deal with than the early Blair years leaving the door open for a quicker Tory return.

I hear a lot of blather about Reform but I suspect they will end up like UKIP; quite a few votes but so spread out as to not matter. They may strip Labour & Tory voters a bit but whether it will worry them enough, as it did Cameron, I doubt. A lot of people who will vote Labour will be wanting to see change including with negative aspects of immigration.

The Libdems rarely field candidates around here, they stick their nose up at us perhaps? But maybe they appeal more to certain demographics?

It will be interesting to see what happens to the SNP. The people of Scotland deserve a lot better than them.

[Lencoboy]

Well UKIP killed off the BNP and the referendum killed off UKIP. All those Tory & Labour members went back to their homes since they only used UKIP as a vehicle for a referendum. That can again be demonstrated by the EU elections where it was divided down referendum lines to gift UKIP and the Libdems. Once the two top parties stopped trying to force the referendum result out everyone went back to their homes (maybe less so on the Libdem side where they might have stayed).

I think seeing immigration in such a way is incorrect. It get played as white racist Brits but people dont think about how EU migration was largely white and many Asian, African, etc voters might like their countries to stop being made 2nd class. Funnily enough those further to the left even saw EU white prioritsation as racism hence why you have a bizarrely broad church of communist party members joining with UKIP types. Even white former EU immigrants had their doubts as they remember the trouble their own countries had with the negative aspects of immigration from their neighbour's. And what about the Asian community around here complaining about a rise in racism due to an influx of eastern European workers? Or maybe employers keeping wages down to increase their profits?

That's why the referendum split everyone. You absolutely have Labour areas seeing this and how the party started shifting away from them under Blair.

You can be as far to the left as you want and surely question prioritising white Christian countries over others? Or be concerned about people smugglers raking it in?

I think it's going to be Labour next but I dont think they supply the same confidence as the incoming Blair years. The Tories have been in so long that they have descended into corruption and sleaze. Sounds reminiscent of when Blair got in. But I dont think Starmer has the ability of Blair, like him or loathe him, and his party is still in disarray despite his attempts to clean out less desirable types who flourished under Corbyn. He will have a lot more infighting to deal with than the early Blair years leaving the door open for a quicker Tory return.

I hear a lot of blather about Reform but I suspect they will end up like UKIP; quite a few votes but so spread out as to not matter. They may strip Labour & Tory voters a bit but whether it will worry them enough, as it did Cameron, I doubt. A lot of people who will vote Labour will be wanting to see change including with negative aspects of immigration.

The Libdems rarely field candidates around here, they stick their nose up at us perhaps? But maybe they appeal more to certain demographics?

It will be interesting to see what happens to the SNP. The people of Scotland deserve a lot better than them.

Some good points there Terry.

Firstly the thing with Starmer waiting in the wings right now vs Blair waiting in the wings back in late 1996-early 1997; the main difference is the influence of the Internet, social media and 24/7 news in general now, unlike back then where the Internet was still in 'cult'/'niche' territory before finally becoming mainstream from around 1998-99 or so onwards IIRC (albeit still with rather limited capabilities compared to further into the 2000s and beyond), 24/7 rolling news channels (as we now know them) still only just a couple of years away and social media only really starting to appear from the mid 2000s at the very earliest, but still not becoming fully mainstream until the early 2010s. So in a nutshell, there were less opportunities for misinformation back in 1996-97, though of course there were still the old-fashioned methods. Furthermore I think Blair was simply 'of his time' and 'of the moment', plus I don't recall the media being particularly kind to him during the most part of his tenure in Number 10 (justified or not), even long before the Iraq debacle from 2003 onwards.

Regarding immigration and many peoples' indignation towards it, the irony is that many of us White Brits still continue to emigrate abroad every year (especially while bemoaning the state of modern-day Britain, and especially bellyaching about 'them pesky foreigners') in pursuit of a better quality of life (which isn't always the case once they're actually there, hence they often end up returning back home to Blighty) and the sheer hypocrisy of it all.

As for David Cameron and the EU Referendum in 2016, I'm sure he is actually a Remainer but called said referendum in order to save himself and the Tory govt as a whole and in the hope of the Remain vote winning, but when the Leave vote actually ended up winning by just a whisker, he wussed out of Number 10 and left his successors to deal with it all.

And now he's made a political comeback following 7 years in the wilderness.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Cameron coming back shows the desperation. He was afraid of UKIP and gave the public something even Blair offered but reneged on once in power. But the whole of parliament are guilty of not inserting the need for a super majority. They all thought they knew us and would get their way. Egg was on the faces of many Tory and Labour MPs in 2016. Cameron said no matter what he would stay but immediately fled. He upset both sides of the debate and was ridiculed for years.

Maybe it will set a trend? Will we have Corbyn back as Shadow Foreign Secretary?

Yes, there may be hypocrisy with the ex pats but does anyone here care much about their opinions? They aren't impacted by immigration into the UK but by their host country's attitude towards it. They complained a lot about being cut off through Brexit.

We still have to tackle this complex issue, one that goes beyond our waters, and I dont see a plan from Tory or Labour to be honest. The Tories will come at Starmer over this if he is PM and he will greatly struggle being trapped between voters who want action and the rifts in his party as their attitudes are quite different.

[Lencoboy]

I think it's all a bit of a catch 22 situation in many respects.

While I could be wrong, I can't really imagine Corbyn making a political 'comeback' in the 2030s, given how much-maligned he has been for quite some time now, with his gutless leadership in particular largely being blamed for Labour's election defeats in 2017 and 2019 respectively, plus I can't imagine any remotely sane person yearning for Boris Johnson to be be back in Number 10 any time in the future either.

Cameron, however, just seems like a gutless wuss who is basically all talk (e.g, promising to tackle all things 'Broken Britain') but in reality comes up with very little to no meaningful action.

Give me someone like John Major any time, who despite being much-maligned in his own right during his premiership (including by myself back in the day), was certainly the better of all the Tory PMs within my lifetime of whom time has since been somewhat kinder to.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Maybe not Corbyn anymore, the same groups will look for another puppet leader because lets face thats all he was. Too weak to control the more rabid elements, the fleas that come with the dog.

Cameron has spent his post referendum time sucking up to foreign big names so he may have some uses but I think the public across the divide of Brexit will think it pathetic to bring this idiot back. I've seen some people argue Cameron is back because Sunak needs allies.

John Major would sink the Tories even further due to his unwillingness to accept people can vote the opposite to his beliefs. He did good work for NI but if he started banging on about his ludicrous "tyranny of the majority" he will alienate red wall voters and pro Brexit Tories (just like his Maastricht days). He was ridiculed by the media for being Mr Boring and a lot of people might remember his closeness to Maggie. So, a divisive character like Blair these days?

I get what you mean though because both major parties seem to be devoid of talent. I don't want to vote for either of them next time, and since they will likely be the only two on the ballot for me, I may have to just vote at councillor level.

It's a great pity John Smith died. I think he would have done better.

[Lencoboy]

Maybe not Corbyn anymore, the same groups will look for another puppet leader because lets face thats all he was. Too weak to control the more rabid elements, the fleas that come with the dog.

Cameron has spent his post referendum time sucking up to foreign big names so he may have some uses but I think the public across the divide of Brexit will think it pathetic to bring this idiot back. I've seen some people argue Cameron is back because Sunak needs allies.

John Major would sink the Tories even further due to his unwillingness to accept people can vote the opposite to his beliefs. He did good work for NI but if he started banging on about his ludicrous "tyranny of the majority" he will alienate red wall voters and pro Brexit Tories (just like his Maastricht days). He was ridiculed by the media for being Mr Boring and a lot of people might remember his closeness to Maggie. So, a divisive character like Blair these days?

I get what you mean though because both major parties seem to be devoid of talent. I don't want to vote for either of them next time, and since they will likely be the only two on the ballot for me, I may have to just vote at councillor level.

It's a great pity John Smith died. I think he would have done better.

I agree with you that the problem that Corbyn seems to have is being too passive in many ways, as in seemingly having an 'oh, just have it your own way then' kind of attitude, and probably would have given into a lot of the far-Righters and their foibles in the interests of 'keeping the peace' and 'preserving freedom of expression'. He seems a bit wimpy in that respect.

Not saying that people shouldn't be entitled to free expression/speech, but unfortunately quite a few people sometimes end up misusing such rights, especially to wilfully incite violence, hatred, etc, which is where it toes the line.

I've heard of other people holding John Smith in higher regard than than the likes of Blair and his successors (Labour party leaders), but no doubt had he (John Smith) survived and been PM from 1997 onwards, people surely would have eventually started having digs at him too.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, he may have depending on what his Momentum handlers decided. We know he gave into his far left ones.

I agree he's wimpy and I think they knew that. They knew he would do as told. He ruined his own reputation by going along with it rather than bowing out. He might have been better letting someone like McDonald, a nastier character who cares little what people think of him, taking the lead and staying on the backbenches.

Anyway he's back where he belongs now busy at rallies conveniently looking the other way when it comes to war crimes.

Yes, anyone who gets that job cant avoid it. But I think he came across more genuine whereas Blair was an opportunist and as we know now he is a narcissist.

[Lencoboy]

Yes, anyone who gets that job cant avoid it. But I think he came across more genuine whereas Blair was an opportunist and as we know now he is a narcissist.

I take it you're referring to Smith vs Blair.

As for the Momentum spin-off thing, they appear to have gone the way of the dodo as we never seem to hear anything of them anymore.

Mind you, they never really caught on in the first place.