The Covid Inquiry (UK)

[MyNameIsTerry]

I agree with Spectrum. And don't forget it was Boris or Corbyn.

Nobody really knows what Starmer stands for and he has demonstrated he will blow with the political winds. He promised members one thing and then turned on them. Maybe he will do the same to get to PM? I think he will determine what people want to hear, get votes and then do whatever in office. If you are expecting change & something great you are in for a very big disappointment. Is this why people think Blair is coaching him?

Basically all he is guilty of is being a typical politician.

One of the horrible elements of the pandemic was how loved ones couldn't be present as someone died. The politicians are getting it in the neck over this bit what of Whitty? Didn't he advise them to lock the hospitals down? Surely he didn't advise them not to? Did he offer advice on allowing limited numbers of loved ones in?

One of my family died that way. All alone with dementia. She was a lucky one though because one of her family worked at the hospital so was given the access the public were denied. I'm very glad she did but it did make me question how they can do it for their friends.

[Lencoboy]

I agree with Spectrum. And don't forget it was Boris or Corbyn.

Nobody really knows what Starmer stands for and he has demonstrated he will blow with the political winds. He promised members one thing and then turned on them. Maybe he will do the same to get to PM? I think he will determine what people want to hear, get votes and then do whatever in office. If you are expecting change & something great you are in for a very big disappointment. Is this why people think Blair is coaching him?

Basically all he is guilty of is being a typical politician.

One of the horrible elements of the pandemic was how loved ones couldn't be present as someone died. The politicians are getting it in the neck over this bit what of Whitty? Didn't he advise them to lock the hospitals down? Surely he didn't advise them not to? Did he offer advice on allowing limited numbers of loved ones in?

One of my family died that way. All alone with dementia. She was a lucky one though because one of her family worked at the hospital so was given the access the public were denied. I'm very glad she did but it did make me question how they can do it for their friends.

So it seems you're basically implying that general elections are now a lost cause and no longer worthy of even bothering to participate in.

[MyNameIsTerry]

So it seems you're basically implying that general elections are now a lost cause and no longer worthy of even bothering to participate in.

No, but I just can't see anything coming from either party right now. I suspect you are right though and we might see some dips in turnout.

I don't think Labour are giving people much to vote for. It's more that the Tories have descended into what they do after too many terms in office. They need a shake up. Sadly we have a weak Labour.

We will have to wait to see the manifesto pledges. Then let independent parties assess if they are correctly costed. Then you pick the worst of two evils. But if I'm honest I think I will look towards not voting at all in this one or for an independent. The trouble is we sometimes only get blue or red on the ticket around here.

Starmer might do ok but I don't expect any more than that. His front bench include some idiots as the government do. Labour have to appease their members and whilst the open racists might be gone it doesn't mean they still haven't got a lot of the elements that gave us Corbyn as leader. That will hamper Starmer just as it has recently.

Starmer needs to tackle some big problems that will span multiple terms but he has many who will derail him due to their activist elements, the things that have caused Labour to lose their traditional bases. The Tories have such problems due to the harder members like Mogg. But I think Starmer has a problem because he tries to appeal to whichever group his attention on e.g. look how he pissed the feminists off to appeal to the t element of LGBT+? There are a lot more women, and mainstream voters, who have concerns about women's rights being eroded than pro trans to the point of infringement of those rights (thinking the more radical elements of trans).

[Lencoboy]

No, but I just can't see anything coming from either party right now. I suspect you are right though and we might see some dips in turnout.

I don't think Labour are giving people much to vote for. It's more that the Tories have descended into what they do after too many terms in office. They need a shake up. Sadly we have a weak Labour.

We will have to wait to see the manifesto pledges. Then let independent parties assess if they are correctly costed. Then you pick the worst of two evils. But if I'm honest I think I will look towards not voting at all in this one or for an independent. The trouble is we sometimes only get blue or red on the ticket around here.

Starmer might do ok but I don't expect any more than that. His front bench include some idiots as the government do. Labour have to appease their members and whilst the open racists might be gone it doesn't mean they still haven't got a lot of the elements that gave us Corbyn as leader. That will hamper Starmer just as it has recently.

Starmer needs to tackle some big problems that will span multiple terms but he has many who will derail him due to their activist elements, the things that have caused Labour to lose their traditional bases. The Tories have such problems due to the harder members like Mogg. But I think Starmer has a problem because he tries to appeal to whichever group his attention on e.g. look how he pissed the feminists off to appeal to the t element of LGBT+? There are a lot more women, and mainstream voters, who have concerns about women's rights being eroded than pro trans to the point of infringement of those rights (thinking the more radical elements of trans).

So to sum up, Labour are basically between a rock and a hard place ATM and will get lambasted by both the media and certain elements of society no matter what? There are also those who shun Starmer for the most trivial of reasons (e.g, 'he's ugly', 'no charisma', etc). On the other hand I do think he made a bit of a faux pas last week as he was reported to now be 'down with the Thatcherites'.

And of course we will get those who will say 'better the devil you know' in reference to the Tories, even if they still generally despise them.

It does seem there's a lot of whataboutery and strawmen/one-upmanship going on with a lot of this right now. And I don't mean from you Terry BTW.

Of course, only time will tell as to how things eventually play out in next year's election, but despite Labour's more favourable opinion poll ratings more recently, (at worst), I'm still not holding my breath.

[MyNameIsTerry]

So to sum up, Labour are basically between a rock and a hard place ATM and will get lambasted by both the media and certain elements of society no matter what? There are also those who shun Starmer for the most trivial of reasons (e.g, 'he's ugly', 'no charisma', etc). On the other hand I do think he made a bit of a faux pas last week as he was reported to now be 'down with the Thatcherites'.

And of course we will get those who will say 'better the devil you know' in reference to the Tories, even if they still generally despise them.

It does seem there's a lot of whataboutery and strawmen/one-upmanship going on with a lot of this right now. And I don't mean from you Terry BTW.

Of course, only time will tell as to how things eventually play out in next year's election, but despite Labour's more favourable opinion poll ratings more recently, (at worst), I'm still not holding my breath.

That's ok, I know you mean what you see in the media.

The polls are very favourable but right now we don't know what Labour will do since the opposition get the luxury of opposing without having a plan either. When the election comes they will have to at least outline their plans and that's where they could see their ratings plummet, and the Tories can win back ground, if their manifesto isn't inline with what people want.

Labour aren't stuck anywhere other than that of their own making. They will always be attacked by those that oppose them. The Tories get that too. Diehard elements will never change. But that's not an excuse for having no policy worth voting for. If they don't reveal their plans, and ones that stand up to scrutiny unlike some of their previous failed costings, some of us are going to be faced with the age old holding your nose issue or just looking elsewhere e.g. a decent independent not afraid to say what they want.

I don't envy him dealing with those further to the left in his party. He has tried but in recent times seems to be slowing down which some might question whether his previous actions were just about brand damage.

I liked how he slammed the lid on those in his party that wanted to keep dragging Brexit out but I also remember how he changed his stance twice on that before. If he attempts to pull towards the Single Market, Customs Union or Associate Status then God knows how red wall voters will respond. Given our links to the EU are still messy it will be interesting to see his proposals.

How will he solve immigration and the holes we have in our labour caused by our reliance on cheap workers and chasing degrees over filling those gaps? How will he reduce the queues? Stop the people smugglers? Address the issues with France? He suggested building more housing but that achieves nothing in the short term and should be for those here that can't access housing. That is just treating a symptom.

I would ignore those criticising trivial things like looks. It happens across the board to public figures.

Like you I don't take anything from the Thatcherite stuff. The media often make desperate links anyway when there is always some common ground especially when you are a centrist as spectrum pointed out. I remember taking one of those "where do you sit on the political spectrum" tests once and came out centre right because my answers spanned both sides.

Both main parties just seem woeful in talent and standards right now.

[Lencoboy]

Back to the original thread topic; It does seem that the Covid Inquiry has now lost a lot of its momentum, and a lot of the MPs being interviewed just seem to be deflecting and also in blatant denial.

I do also think that the media have been pandering to the lowest common denominators with a lot of this and have also turned much of it into a tedious drama-fest.

The same also goes for the stuff happening in the Middle East right now where certain outlets seem to be riling up the serial anti-Semites in this country alone.

[Lencoboy]

Well this week it's Sunak's turn to get it in the neck.

But TBH I reckon most of the country are now beyond even caring and (for better or worse) simply want to move on with their lives.

[pulisa]

Not the bereaved families though. They want to know precisely what truly went on behind the official scenes. Quite understandably.

[Lencoboy]

Not the bereaved families though. They want to know precisely what truly went on behind the official scenes. Quite understandably.

Of course.

But unfortunately Johnson and Co seemed far more concerned with 'getting Brexit done' and pandering to the serial naysayers and denyers at the time than to care about people's lives being at risk.

In a nutshell, caught napping.

[Pain]

Locking down on the lockdown?...

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/12/13/i-dont-want-to-get-into-that-covid-inquiry-shuts-down-prime-minister-when-he-points-out-lockdown-did-more-harm-than-good/