Are persons with ASD easy pickings for punitive treatment?

[Lencoboy]

Last Wednesday (3rd Jan) I was having a conversation with this one staff member at my day centre whose previous job some years back involved 'care in the community', and they mentioned that on one occasion they 'bailed out' one of their clients who had ASD who had a bit of a verbal altercation (non-physically violent) with an irate shop assistant who was threatening to press charges against said person with ASD who got a bit arsy and lippy in return towards that already arsy and stroppy shop assistant who was basically coming out with all the usual hyperbole about 'zero tolerance', ASBOs, etc, and generally attempting to go in all guns blazing at that person with ASD, threatening to 'lay down the law' on said person, all for the sake of a misunderstanding.

I've also heard and read horror stories (and even witnessed such things in person) in the past about persons with ASD unfairly being on the receiving end of ASBOs and the like, often where there was no actual criminal intent, and have also been fair game for being on the receiving end of zero tolerance policies seemingly willy-nilly at school, college, day centres, hospitals and other NHS and likewise establishments, etc, especially during the decade of the 2000s.

And all while many true ne'er-do-wells have often ended up getting off scot-free!

What does anyone think?

[MyNameIsTerry]

My first thought was does the person know the other has ASD?

There are many mental health conditions including anxiety and depression that can cause anyone to act out of character. I've done it myself and felt terrible for it afterwards.

So do we all have to assume mental health issues when someone acts poorly? If so how are we to separate genuine people from someone who is basically an ar5ehole? And how is it acceptable to vent at someone because you are suffering? Its understandable but it does not excuse behaviour.

A further difficulty might be whether the person has enough insight into their behaviour. That can be hard with ASD but in the heat of the moment it can be for anyone otherwise prisons would have more free cells.

It's a wider debate than ASD because historically anyone with anything outside of the norm has been treated badly by society and those in charge. Not even considering the lack of safeguarding people from abusers.

So what is unique to ASD? So much of the poor treatment overlaps into other conditions but are there some that are only aimed at people like yourself?

[Lencoboy]

My first thought was does the person know the other has ASD?

There are many mental health conditions including anxiety and depression that can cause anyone to act out of character. I've done it myself and felt terrible for it afterwards.

So do we all have to assume mental health issues when someone acts poorly? If so how are we to separate genuine people from someone who is basically an ar5ehole? And how is it acceptable to vent at someone because you are suffering? Its understandable but it does not excuse behaviour.

A further difficulty might be whether the person has enough insight into their behaviour. That can be hard with ASD but in the heat of the moment it can be for anyone otherwise prisons would have more free cells.

It's a wider debate than ASD because historically anyone with anything outside of the norm has been treated badly by society and those in charge. Not even considering the lack of safeguarding people from abusers.

So what is unique to ASD? So much of the poor treatment overlaps into other conditions but are there some that are only aimed at people like yourself?

I don't dispute much of what you say Terry.

While I agree wholeheartedly that simply having ASD doesn't give such persons carte blanche to behave like selfish @rseholes just for the sake of it, there are many other factors that often known to be overlooked; e.g, extremely overwhelming environments chocker with various sources of sensory overload (which can obviously drive many neurotypicals to distraction even at the best of times, let alone persons with disabilities), the persons in question struggling with monetary skills (and inadvertently being slow) when being served at the till/checkout while at the same time being tutted at and/or moaned at by both the person on the till/checkout and irate customers in the queue behind them, which can sometimes lead to the persons with ASD having meltdowns on the spot, which is usually unintentional beforehand and usually also heavily regretted by those persons afterwards.

I've known it happen on buses too in the past; not just involving persons with ASD but other disabilities and also elderly persons who of course can often be a bit slow through no fault of their own, and certain bus drivers acting all arsy towards them, sometimes reducing them to tears.

The crux of the issue is often impatience and/or intolerance, which obviously goes hand in hand with society seemingly being in a hurry a lot of the time, which isn't necessarily the fault of persons with disabilities, the elderly, etc, who almost always seem to get it in the neck, especially for being slow.

[Lencoboy]

It's a wider debate than ASD because historically anyone with anything outside of the norm has been treated badly by society and those in charge. Not even considering the lack of safeguarding people from abusers.

I do often wonder if I was often 'fitted up' by certain staff members (and also certain other pupils) at the residential school I attended back in 1986-87, especially regarding the last sentence in your selected quote above?

[BlueIris]

Being on the spectrum doesn't preclude a person from being aggressive, creepy or a pain in the backside to deal with.

[Lencoboy]

Being on the spectrum doesn't preclude a person from being aggressive, creepy or a pain in the backside to deal with.

Again, I don't dispute that in any way, but the point I am making is that we have often seemingly been disproportionately singled out for things (including certain behaviours that we can't always help) and had the book thrown at us where others have often been known to get off scot-free for far worse things.

But then again I suppose that's just the way of the world and a case of Murphy's Law.

[Pain]

I do often wonder if I was often 'fitted up' by certain staff members (and also certain other pupils) at the residential school I attended back in 1986-87 ...

Do you identify as a victim – always, often, seldom, never?

[Lencoboy]

Do you identify as a victim – always, often, seldom, never?

As in reporting what went on in that place all those years ago to the authorities?

If that's what you mean then no I haven't, as there would probably be little point in doing so all these years later, plus I would probably find the court cases involved just as traumatic as the original events themselves.

[Pain]

As in reporting what went on in that place all those years ago to the authorities? ...

No, generally as you go through life?

[Lencoboy]

No, generally as you go through life?

I doubt if it would really make any difference TBH, plus there's far more pressing issues for the authorities to be dealing with of late.

However, it wasn't just me that was on the receiving end of such treatments when I was younger; I witnessed various other fellow peers of mine also being treated harshly; sometimes even more inhumanely than me in fact, and certainly wasn't pleasant to witness on said occasions.

Especially hearing certain staff members at the residential school brawling with other pupils in the corridors there late at night, and being kept awake by all the din arising from the commotion; shouting, screaming, slapping, you name it!

Pretty terrifying stuff, similar to hearing late-night domestics between parents.